Will Vag Car Owners Pay Higher Taxes?

[philthy]

Doubt it very much. Even the trade is saying used values will be unaffected.

This is a US issue. The testing methods for the EU are completely different. VW has passed that test and the new test due to be introduced. BMW, Volvo, Renault and Hyundai are four manufacturers who have engines that failed the new test.

Whilst it might give some RX owners a bit of a Schaudenfkied (sic) complex, I'm sorry to have to break the news but the Touareg 3.0 V6 TDi engine isn't one where US results have been "falsified". VW also have a solution for vehicles with engines of the E189 specification by fitting an Adblue tank. These engines then comply with Euro EU6.

VW get fined, fix cars affected and everyone is happy.

Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk

[lee789]

Well, even if it's only US cars that are affected, I don't think everybody is going to be happy. It remains to be seen if European and UK cars are affected, because the same software was installed on our cars that was used to cheat the US tests. It's going to cost VW an arm and a leg to retrofit Adblue tanks (if it can even be done, which I strongly doubt), and then they face a massive fine. I don't think customers will be overjoyed either, because Adblue isn't cheap, and it's not very convenient.

[dave1]

I am convinced that this will not affect VED retrospectively or indeed until 2017 no matter what the outcome. At the moment this is all pure conjecture since there has been nothing to prove that the EU results were not achieved within the "rules" as the loophole used in EU testing was known to the relevant authorities and ignored. It is only because of the publicity surrounding the US fiddle which has prompted these cries of outrage by various EU countries who were apparently aware of methods used to obtain better figures..........as indeed they are regarding the total falsification of fuel consumption figures which they are complicit in.

[philthy]

Adblue tanks can easily be fitted in the spare wheel well under the wheel. In the US the controversy is because EU6 engines (with Adblue tanks) were used to pass the test, but EU5 (without) engines came in the vehicles released to dealers. The cost of retrospectively fitting the tanks is a drop in the ocean and the fine likely to be far less than that being reported.

Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk

[lee789]

I don't know about a drop in the ocean Phil. 482,000 cars to retrofit, and the EPA saying a maximum fine of $37,500 a car, which is $18 Biillion, if the Federal Government pushes for that. I understand that VW have said they have no intention of paying that kind of fine, but if that's what's decided, and they want to continue selling cars in the US, they won't have much choice. By the way, you say the cheat was done by fitting Adblue tanks to tested cars, and removing them from retail cars. I thought this was all about illegal software installed on the vehicles to produce false results??

[philthy]

The fine won't be that much. The US are all about mouth and trousers and when the grand scheme of things is applied, this about VW using technology to pass an emissions test as set by the US authorities. Illegal? Doubtful. Ethical? Probably not. VW are the biggest manufacturer having overtaken Ford. Globally they are worth over £50billion. The auto family are predicting that this is highly unlikely to have a big effect on VW. Sections of the media are guilty of lazy reporting on this; take the BBCs VW diesels prohibited from sale in Switzerland. Wrong. Switzerland have prohibited the sale of EU5 derivative 1.6 and 2.0 TDi engines in the Golf, Jetta and Passat, nothing else. VW buyers are being advised by motoring organisations to not be so ridiculous by cancelling orders, as existing vehicles and those already on order, will not suffer with any retrospective hike in VED.

Whilst I own a Touareg R Line unaffected by these recent revelations, I'd personally be glad to see the back of every Golf as they are among the worst drivers on the road in my encounters with them. Quickly followed by Audi and BMW drivers.

[Deadloak]

The fine won't be that much. The US are all about mouth and trousers and when the grand scheme of things is applied, this about VW using technology to pass an emissions test as set by the US authorities. Illegal? Doubtful. Ethical? Probably not. VW are the biggest manufacturer having overtaken Ford. Globally they are worth over £50billion. The auto family are predicting that this is highly unlikely to have a big effect on VW. Sections of the media are guilty of lazy reporting on this; take the BBCs VW diesels prohibited from sale in Switzerland. Wrong. Switzerland have prohibited the sale of EU5 derivative 1.6 and 2.0 TDi engines in the Golf, Jetta and Passat, nothing else. VW buyers are being advised by motoring organisations to not be so ridiculous by cancelling orders, as existing vehicles and those already on order, will not suffer with any retrospective hike in VED.

Whilst I own a Touareg R Line unaffected by these recent revelations, I'd personally be glad to see the back of every Golf as they are among the worst drivers on the road in my encounters with them. Quickly followed by Audi and BMW drivers.

Not noticed the Golf's, but agree with other two. The BBC are very fond of headline chasing with stories, and are very biased politically. If you want balanced reporting on anything tune in anywhere else but the Beeb. Defrauding the testing would be illegal, but the US would settle out of court for everything, with plea bargaining.

David.

[philthy]

You only have to look at the derisory fine the US gave GM for a fault on vehicles that directly caused fatalities. After all the huffing and puffing it hardly dented GMs income.

Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk

[ColinBarber]

VW are the biggest manufacturer having overtaken Ford.

Ford? They are about sixth.

Toyota are still number 1, VW were larger in the first half of the year but doesn't look like they are going to maintain that for the full year.

[ColinBarber]

You only have to look at the derisory fine the US gave GM for a fault on vehicles that directly caused fatalities. After all the huffing and puffing it hardly dented GMs income.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is because they are a US company. Toyota were fined more for things less serious.

[rayaans]

Latest info on this matter -

BMW X3 20d has been caught emitting almost 12 times the EURO 6 Nox limit by an independent company. Therefore, increasingly likely that other manufacturers are rigging the emission tests.

The VW engines affected mainly include the 1.6TDI, the 2.0TDI and the 3.0TDI. These are used in SEAT, VW, Skoda, Audi and Porsche.

The UK Government has called for re-testing of all DIESEL cars according to the Daily Mail. This could subsequently lead to higher VED charges if the car is emitting more than it should be.

[philthy]

The VW 3.0 TDi is not one of the engines affected. Like all engines, it is being checked. Not all 1.6 and 2.0 Diesel engines are affected either. It is only the EU5 derivative (E2189).

The software operates by detecting when the vehicle is on a rolling road simply by checking whether the non-drive wheels are moving. On a rolling road they won't be. The Touareg (3.0 V6 TDi) is permanent 4x4 so can only be tested on a rolling road with all four wheels turning stopping the software (if it is fitted) from operating.

Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk

[lee789]

Rather glad I ditched diesel for a plug in and petrol engines.

[philthy]

Glad I opted for a diesel that I can leave standing for more than a couple of weeks without risking a flat Battery and get from one end of the country to the other without refuelling.

The Diesel engines affected are easily and cheaply rectified. There will be no retrospective hike in VED and no significant drop in resale values. The trade and economists are virtually agreed on that.

Every single vehicle model cheats the emissions test be it by taping over door seams, removing all non essential equipment to lighten the vehicle, over inflating the tyres, accelerating very slowly etc etc. Even your petrol and petrol/hybrid. VW have used software to assist them in passing the test with EU5 E189 engines. This is one engine configuration with all others being fine.

Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk

[lee789]

I have started doing a lot of short journeys, which doesn't really go well with the DPF's on diesels. Why would the Battery on a petrol engined car go flat any quicker than a diesel? My petrol car pays maximum VED rate anyway, so how ever much they cheated it wouldn't make any difference!!

[philthy]

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic/43199-battery-failure/

Known fault with hybrids.

The point being made is that it isn't just VW that are fooling the tests. Everybody does it. The VW EU5 EU189 actually passes the EU test and all VW EU6 engines pass the new EU test to be introduced in 2017.

There are some reports that highlight the damage to the environment by producing and disposing the hybrid batteries and components.

http://greenliving.lovetoknow.com/Hybrid_Vehicles_Negative_Environmental_Impact

The bigger inquiry is going to turn up a lot more than just VW.

Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk

[Gary T]

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic/43199-battery-failure/

Known fault with hybrids.

Know fault with some hybrids because they were fitted with a rather small 12v Battery.

My IS was fine when left outdoors for over 2 weeks at Christmas. In fact it was our diesel that was standing along side it that had a flat Battery and wouldn't start.

And it can get from one end of the country to the other without re-fueling as well.

[philthy]

Good for you. [emoji106]

Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk

[dave1]

so I am sure all have heard about the Volkswagen/Audi cars emitting higher pollutants than the manufactures stated in their newer cars which results in them charging a premium and I guess the consumer paying less in taxes with some models emitting up to 4 times more or 50% more than stated by VAG.

if test results were found to be true for UK models cars does this mean the government would need to re asses the rates they are currently charging road tax for mainly newer diesel car drivers? as I believe it wont be fair on drivers of cars who are having to pay more on road tax if their cars were emitting similar as the VAG models but the VAG driver pays less in road taxes. will mainly petrol drivers have a case here if results prove UK VAG models had the manipulating software.. ??

Well the government have announced that they will not be making VW owners pay more tax as a result of this, which is exactly what I said in post #2 of this thread John. It would have been logistically nigh on impossible.

[Spacewagon52]

Philthy, out of interest, what Lexus model did you have before the Touareg? Are you tempted to come back to Lexus?

You seem to be sold on VW diesel engineering.

I have a diesel, 2.0 TDI VW engine in a Mitsubishi, but now I am not convinced (on environmental concerns) that diesel is the future.

[Deadloak]

The VW Golf's legendary reliability is a myth. Just clever marketing jargon, that people have believed for years, because no-one ever questioned it. I had one golf, worse car I've ever owned, never buy a VW again on that experience.

David.

[Spacewagon52]

I can honestly say I have never had a "bad" experience with Japanese derived cars. Volvo, Skoda, BMW - not that impressed. My local garage mechanic said to me, when seeing a VW Golf being repaired, "They are not as reliable as people think."

[philthy]

I had an is220d which was a mistake with the too tall first gear and everyone hitting their heads on the A pillar. Lost £6k trading in after 6 months ownership to go back to an S80 D5. When I retired I needed a SUV and considered the RX but decided against for a couple of reasons. The obvious one was the flat Battery problem when left standing, but my local dealership didn't handle themselves well in all the contact I had with them either putting me off further. If there was another dealer close by, I might have taken a punt on the RX, but the Treg is a quality car with power, space and enough tech and toys to keep me happy.

Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk

[ColinBarber]

The government confirmed today that any reclassification of VAG vehicles won't result in customers having to pay more tax.

What they should be doing is calculating the additional tax for the next 10 years on all the vehicles and then fining VAG for that amount, tripled as the wilfully deceived, and use that money to offset the extra emissions by reducing congestion.

[philthy]

The government confirmed today that any reclassification of VAG vehicles won't result in customers having to pay more tax.

What they should be doing is calculating the additional tax for the next 10 years on all the vehicles and then fining VAG for that amount, tripled as the wilfully deceived, and use that money to offset the extra emissions by reducing congestion.

The vehicles pass the EU emissions test as it tests for Co2 and not Carbon Oxide, so what are you going to fine them for? They're going to fit Adblue tanks to existing vehicles including EU ones, to comply with the US test for Carbon Oxide emissions.

Now how about a fine for those manufacturers producing hybrid vehicles because of the damage to health and the environment by the open cast mining methods and both the production and destruction of the batteries? Your hybrid may run partially cleaner than a diesel but getting it on the road is more destructive.

The pollution from cars is a drop in the ocean compared to industry.

Sent from my Iphone using Tapatalk