Best Ls400 Or Cheap Ls430.

Gbneil · September 11, 2015

Purely hypothetical at the minute but God I miss my Lexus. I was never overly keen on ls430 but had a proper poke around one the other day..another level of luxury? I am in process of selling my car and whilst the 2k or so will not go near even a ropey 430...and why would I want a ropey one, it will, sadly for 400 owners, buy a decent mk4 ls400... So question, revisit ls400 in full knowledge I will always compare it to the one I loved and lost, or save for 6 months or so and get a decent 430 albeit probably not as nice condition as the 400 I can potentially afford. This dilemma is hypothetical and has probably been posted many times, but opinions please?

keybasher2 · September 11, 2015

I`m probably biased but the 430 seems to suffer with more faults? 430 cabin looks superb and shape looks more modern but the suspension and gearbox problems fill me with trepidation

Simon

Chris Skelton · September 11, 2015

'Cheap' is that for a reason, I guess.

I had same dilemma. after 2 LSs; Ser 3 + 4, I feel I don't want to repeat myself. 430? Not sure I like it. 460? Too much, and is it just more of same.

But, no other cars are as good!

So....SC430 for me? Hmm......

Ruud · September 11, 2015

I've had a 430 in the beginning of the year and am glad to be back in a 400.

I've now got a '90 400 and a '99 Celsior with LPG and can't decide which I like best :)

Gbneil · September 11, 2015

I much prefer 400 aesthetics to be honest and they have that granite like impregnability. Yup, confirmed my gut feeling. No school like the old school

GrahamG · September 11, 2015

Simon,

What are the gearbox problems you refer to with the LS430?

Malc · September 12, 2015

I much prefer 400 aesthetics to be honest and they have that granite like impregnability. Yup, confirmed my gut feeling. No school like the old school

Maybe just find yourself a good Mk3 again ..... or dare I say it, try to but back your last one !

Malc

mikeyv · September 12, 2015

Simon,

What are the gearbox problems you refer to with the LS430?

There is a known problem with the radiator, also afflicts other Toyota vehicles I believe, where coolant is allowed to mix with transmission fluid, due to corrosion, with predictably disastrous results for the auto box.

GrahamG · September 12, 2015

Yes Michael, I am also interested in that radiator problem and at eleven years/83k miles am considering renewal by way of preventative maintenance.

Isn't it a pity we cannot get actual data of failures such as this to be able to judge the risk.

Warranty Direct reliability survey gives zero per cent for 'gearbox/transmission' failures for the LS430 and if that seems suspiciously low the rest of the percentages do add up to 100.

Also the percentage for my other car the RX is 1.8% for that category.

Spacewagon52 · September 12, 2015

You will have to keep your eyes on the market George, to bag a good one before it is snapped up.

Malc · September 12, 2015

Yes Michael, I am also interested in that radiator problem and at eleven years/83k miles am considering renewal by way of preventative maintenance.

Isn't it a pity we cannot get actual data of failures such as this to be able to judge the risk.

Warranty Direct reliability survey gives zero per cent for 'gearbox/transmission' failures for the LS430 and if that seems suspiciously low the rest of the percentages do add up to 100.

Also the percentage for my other car the RX is 1.8% for that category.

In my days of car sales etc I know that certain warranty companies desperately try to avoid ( successfully so ) paying out on claims where it might be considered " fair wear and tear " ...... tears for the owners on this one maybe ! ...... with the gearbox failure being related to fair wear and tear ( rust ) on another component.

I doubt there's a single issue with a Ls430 that they wouldn't put down to fair wear and tear in view of the ages of these cars .............. but i might be wrong

Malc

mikeyv · September 12, 2015

Yes Michael, I am also interested in that radiator problem and at eleven years/83k miles am considering renewal by way of preventative maintenance.

Isn't it a pity we cannot get actual data of failures such as this to be able to judge the risk.

Warranty Direct reliability survey gives zero per cent for 'gearbox/transmission' failures for the LS430 and if that seems suspiciously low the rest of the percentages do add up to 100.

Also the percentage for my other car the RX is 1.8% for that category.

I've seen a few mentions on this forum Graham, a couple of 430s and also a Land Cruiser from memory, but even if the risk is small, the cost to repair would likely be horrendous, whereas a replacement radiator, probably a couple of hundred?

Not much for peace of mind.

GrahamG · September 12, 2015

Devastating point Malcolm, I never thought of zero faults because the insurers simply refuse to pay out. We need to know but will never be told how many claims.

After 10years Lexus no longer offer an extended warranty and I considered an independent insurer but after looking at the exclusions decided against it even when they phoned back after my initial approach and offered £100 off.

The radiator failure is alarming because even if you detect contamination early on by that time the transmission is U/S so there is no effective early warning and nothing to be seen from the outside.

Gbneil · September 12, 2015

I much prefer 400 aesthetics to be honest and they have that granite like impregnability. Yup, confirmed my gut feeling. No school like the old school

Maybe just find yourself a good Mk3 again ..... or dare I say it, try to but back your last one !

Malc

I have tried to make contact several times but no joy, and if I can't have THAT one back I think mk4 would be my choice

cruisermark · September 12, 2015

I much prefer 400 aesthetics to be honest and they have that granite like impregnability. Yup, confirmed my gut feeling. No school like the old school

Maybe just find yourself a good Mk3 again ..... or dare I say it, try to but back your last one !

Malc

I have tried to make contact several times but no joy, and if I can't have THAT one back I think mk4 would be my choice

well its still taxed and motd so still driving around somewhere - did the car go far from you

Gbneil · September 12, 2015

Have the guys address but no phone number. Was a strange one as he got a beautiful car for pennies and never left any feedback. Have tried to contact him via eBay several times but no joy. Lives around 100 miles away. I may go knock his door if my ka sells

Loathecliff · September 12, 2015

Simon,

What are the gearbox problems you refer to with the LS430?

There is a known problem with the radiator, also afflicts other Toyota vehicles I believe, where coolant is allowed to mix with transmission fluid, due to corrosion, with predictably disastrous results for the auto box.

So it's a radiator issue, not a gearbox issue.

Q: How does the 400 cool it's auto trans fluid? Or should I say where?

OP, what is your definition of "ropey"? - Mine would be any Lexus with air suspension as it is such a liability once the car is out of warranty. After that, rust. - From 45 yrs of experience, high mileage in a short time is great. The cars are cheap & they don't (these days) wear out cruising down a motorway. Whereas high age, low mileage cars can be an expensive disaster, esp. if unused in winter when the pickled timing & guide wheels rubbing on a timing belt will shred it; but you can't convince the buying public because they are so concerned about their street cred. But what do I know after being brought up in the business.

I deliberately waited for a coil sprung 430, & what do you know, at last a big Lexus that's a driver's car!! Shock.

Spacewagon52 · September 12, 2015

So the 460's potentially have the same issues because of the air suspension?

Ruud · September 12, 2015

A: The 400 does not need to cool the transmission under normal conditions. When you use the 400 for towing it's a different story.

I'm fairly sure a few members here using their 400 to tow a caravan have had an oil cooler fitted.

Yoda · September 12, 2015

As a newbie to the Lexus world and one that will only own an engine at box at that, I found this thread thoroughly interesting. For one, my truck will be towing now and again, with the 1UZ fitted, as it does now. The Lexus and Mitsi auto boxes are supposed to be identical. Mitsis aren't known to have gearbox cooling issues or box oil coolers fitted. However it's made me think about fitting one.

Also all the research I've been doing for the conversion has slowly created a hankering for a big comfy Lexus for long journeys and anything I don't want to use my truck for. I too was wondering what would be best between an Ls400 and an LS430. I won't be getting one yet as the conversion is costing a pretty penny. But I'm defnintly seeing what's attractive about the world of luxury saloons now.

Gbneil · September 12, 2015

Simon,

What are the gearbox problems you refer to with the LS430?

There is a known problem with the radiator, also afflicts other Toyota vehicles I believe, where coolant is allowed to mix with transmission fluid, due to corrosion, with predictably disastrous results for the auto box.
So it's a radiator issue, not a gearbox issue.
Q: How does the 400 cool it's auto trans fluid? Or should I say where?

OP, what is your definition of "ropey"? - Mine would be any Lexus with air suspension as it is such a liability once the car is out of warranty. After that, rust. - From 45 yrs of experience, high mileage in a short time is great. The cars are cheap & they don't (these days) wear out cruising down a motorway. Whereas high age, low mileage cars can be an expensive disaster, esp. if unused in winter when the pickled timing & guide wheels rubbing on a timing belt will shred it; but you can't convince the buying public because they are so concerned about their street cred. But what do I know after being brought up in the business.

I deliberately waited for a coil sprung 430, & what do you know, at last a big Lexus that's a driver's car!! Shock.

Hi. Mileage does not frighten me one bit, I have owned a few 200k mile cars, and 2 300k milers, a Citroen xm td estate and a Volvo amazon estate! Having taken on board the advice proferred in this thread, it has merely confirmed my suspicions that whilst a well kept ls430 can be a paragon of reliability, the earlier 400 is hewn from granite in comparison. My mk3 had 67k miles and drove like new, nothing like a well cared for car. My current lowly ford had 20k miles up when I bought it and if added almost 10k miles. It has only needed petrol. My ultimate Lexus would be a 600h lwb but lottery win notwithstanding, that will have to wait a significant amount of time. Thanks so much for all replays. Gbn

Loathecliff · September 12, 2015

So the 460's potentially have the same issues because of the air suspension?

Yes; & no coilover kits to run to yet, according to a guy posting his 460 air issue from Ireland recently :(

RXs; LS 400s; any model so fitted. What a rubbish system it is. Give the Citroën system any day.

Why do certain folk on here keep pointing at the LS430 as though it is responsible for Lexus air suspension issues?

(We all know it was uk dealers not wanting lesser spec used stock that caused this. Merc dealers have the same paranoia.)

There was a Celsior 400 on fleabay last week with duff air suspension, so why no rant aimed at that?

As I keep on saying, an LS 430 with decent springs and dampers is a joy to throw around. More so than the LS 400s I drove years back.

Lovely cars but too soft for me. Set up for their biggest market no doubt.

I had a little fun in it this week. I'll post about that later.

.

Ruud · September 12, 2015

A Ls400 with decent springs and dampers is the same fun to drive around as a 430 with that setup.

The w220 Mercedes is probably worse for air suspension failures than the 430 will ever be. yet I owned one a few years ago and it was great.

It's like with every 'old' car - things can go wrong and the more gadgets are involved, the more expensive it gets.

Loathecliff · September 12, 2015

I stand corrected. Must be my driving.

soundchaser100 · September 13, 2015

This very day I have just finished fitting a £60 ATF cooler to the front of my 2001 LS430, so now the "radiator mixing the fluids" problem has completely disappeared. It's a bit of a messy job, but worth it for the peace of mind. Having owned this 430 for 3 weeks I've had time to compare it with my LS400 which I've had for 9 years. The level of luxury in the 430 is far ahead of the Mk3 400, but the ride (air suspension) is not really any smoother. I have recently replaced ALL front suspension parts on the 400 so it is now like driving a new car.

Paul