Buying A 2nd Hand Is250 (mk2) - Are Dealers Worth The Premium?

mk_lon · September 7, 2015

Hi Guys,

I'm new to the forum and I wanted to ask the experts for some advice.

I have decided on a IS250 SEL Auto as my next car as apposed to a BMW 325 auto (e90 shape), it will be my first Lexus (currently have a Nissan Juke and before that a v6 Merc c240).

I searched Auto trader and Gumtree found independents/private guys selling them for around £6.5 - 7.5k with 60k(ish) on the clock on a 06/07plate. I found dealers offering similar for £8.5k- £9k ish.

My questions are;

1. Are dealer cars worth £1-1.5k premium?

2. Is there a notable difference between the 05/06 cars and 09 cars?

I would naturally go for the newer cars but it seems as the IS250 seems to be reliable, well built and without any major changes untill 2010ish.... so why pay extra?

I would really appreciate some guidance and experience.

Thanks for reading

Bluesman · September 7, 2015

Hi M and welcome to the LOC, we are a
friendly bunch and some of us even know how to pull them to bits and
put them back together again, with of course the one bolt and washer
left over.

I cant help with your present
problem but someone will be along shortly to help.

Regards Mike.

Womble72 · September 7, 2015

Hi, I've just recently sold an 06 SE-L with 42k, family owned from new, I got 6500 for it, it never had any money spent on it other than servicing, tyres, discs n pads, Lexus offered me 4750 for it, so I wouldn't pay anymore than 6500 BUT it would have to have low mileage, BUT equally, don't be put off by mileage, as there VERY reliable.

Paul

mk_lon · September 7, 2015

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the insight. I had a feeling the 06 plates were solid as a rock. May I ask what you changed your car for and do you have any tips for what I should keep a look out for?

Kind Regards,

Mo

mk_lon · September 7, 2015

Ps Thanks for the welcome Mike :)

is200 Newbie · September 7, 2015

Read up on the car first - any car can go wrong whether its bought from a garage or dealer etc but you reduce the risk if you do a bit of homework first and this forum has a lot of topics on what to look for

Both options of buying have their good and bad points

What to out look for:

Seized callipers (rears are more common than the fronts)

White crust around the coolant expansion tank

Exhaust corrosion

All the electrics working

Mileage can be considered a factor - if its below 60k then prepare yourself for a good chunk of money to go towards a spark plug change at 60k

Check tyre rotation indicators on tyre walls (garages may swap these around to hide uneven wear) an easy spot.

Check radio / DVD is fully working

A quick check on the cars health can be done if you take along an OBD reader and plug in during your test drive (if they let you drive it on your own) it will give you an indication of any previous faults if they have not reset them. Also, I am always wary of a newly cleaned engine bay as it masks any evidence of leaks etc.

Don't let the above put you off - these are reliable cars but do your homework on them first to know what to look for.

mk_lon · September 7, 2015

Hi Noo Bee,

Thanks for the tips, really useful advice. Is there a buying guide on the forum? I did look but couldn't find one.

Kind regards,

M

is200 Newbie · September 8, 2015

There are a lot of individual guides, worth taking a bit of time to read through the forum to find them and to also get an insight in how they work

mk_lon · September 8, 2015

Thanks, I'll start searching through the forum :)

mk_lon · September 15, 2015

Hi Guys

I am about to buy a 57plate IS250 SEL with literally everything in it.

Its had its rear calipers changed last year and has a full LEXUS service history (one owner from new), it has 63k on the clock, currently being sold by independent car trader. He would not budge much on the price, saying "you show me where you can get a motor with owner from new mate..."

Anyway after being scared sh*tless reading about Noo Bee / is 200 Newbie experience with exhaust (£1,700 bill), I noticed this ones exhaust were rusty... I think its normal for car this age but im not a mechanic..... and im starting to get worried... Am I being paranoid??

Thanks in advance for reading and your contributions :)

Kind Regards,

M

is200 Newbie · September 16, 2015

I would not worry about the calipers if its a deal breaker - you have said they have been changed last year. Do you have evidence of this or just the sellers word it has been done. Saying that, they are easy to replace yourself (no degree in mechanics needed!) It is a good idea and a recommended check to grease the calipers once you buy it only for peace of mind that it has been done as considering the 10 mins per corner it takes to do will save you a bill of £600 for 2 x seized calipers months down the line. Re-grease every year (every 6 months does not hurt at all)

I am always wary of a car that's a low miler (depending on the car that is) as while its probably not been abused intentionally its more than likely not had the use it was designed for. Not trying to put you off at all - if the exhaust is rotted then its more than likely been used for short runs as it has not had the chance to heat up to remove any condensation and hence sat idle for a while and the condensation has had a chance to rot the exhaust. I am presuming the seller has given it a 12 month MOT ... don't be fooled by that as I have not long bought two cars for my kids and both, with a 12 month MOT on each, had things wrong with them that I had to question if it had actually been through an MOT or was it a case of a mate of a mate with a back hander type of deal ..!!

Sorry - the exhaust is gonna cost you if its gone - the third party suppliers (ATS etc) cannot supply these as Lexus have not released the pattern parts in order for the suppliers to the likes of ATS etc to make them. I do not recommend a stainless one from personal experience as they are very noisy in the cabin but its a personal choice. £450 is what I paid for a centre and two back boxes in stainless and that was made to fit. I am actually looking to either replace this one with a used one or to actually change the resonator / boxes with a mild steel one sized to fit from another car not nessesary a Lexus. Not got anywhere with this yet though (not had time)

Ask the seller if you can check the exhaust on a ramp - ask them if you can take it (as a test drive) to the likes of ATS or a local garage and get it on the ramp - the cost of 10 - 20 £ for this will be cheaper than replacing the exhaust if its gone and if it has and you still want it then it IS a bargaining point to bring the cost down. If you are not sure of the car in general, get an MOT check on it instigated by yourself and that may settle your decision with the specific instruction for them to check the exhaust out.

Be aware also that at 60k there is a spark plug change required (although a lot of people leave this, I have read, to 100k) If it has a full service history and with the car being on the borderline of this work needing done, check it has been. Its a big job and again, it costs - last I heard it was over £600 to do a plug change ! (that's not a typo either). When was the last service done ? If you can see the stamp of the dealer it was done in then call them to ask explaining you are looking to buy the car and just want to know a few details.

Also check for a white crust around the expansion tank under the bonnet which could be coolant

mk_lon · September 17, 2015

Hi Is250newbee,

Thank you so much for the sound advice, I really appreciate it.

I ended up buying the car yesterday as the trader took out an entire wod of receipts/invoices (8 years worth) all from Lexus Ipswich.

I called up Lexus Ipswich where the car had been from new and they would'nt tell me much as they said they are not allowed to. They did however confirm that it had been serviced with them every year from new.

This car (like all the other cars in this traders showroom) was fully valeted inside and out so I couldn't check for the residue issue. The history looked like this (all from Lexus);

Nov 14 – 70k service done (despite millage being 58k)

Dec 13 – rear callipers, brakes and pads from independent £817 bill

Oct 13 – spark plugs and service £641

Oct 12- nothing major, just a small service £250

Sep 11- £1,500 service bill (4 new tyres inc)

I thought with this level of documentation its been well looked after so I took the plunge and haggled an extra £300 off and bought it.

Today I was driving driving through a narrow road at speed, dodged oncoming van and.........the dreaded check VSC warning light came on, with antic skid sign and engine fault light....... my heart sank ...

Called Lexus (Woodford) and they wanted £168 just to look at it.... I was sh*tting myself / having a mild heart attack.

Came to the forum and found out that nearly everyone gets this damnn light. My friend has an IS250 and he said DON'T trust dealers.... they exaggerate and hit you with a bill. Also after reading this forum, I don't want to go near one again.

I will be taking it to an independent garage tomorrow to do a diagnostic, he said £50. This garage I have known for years and is honest as you can get, in fact when you service your car here you get all your old parts back in a plastic bag, so I thought why not?

Kind Regards,

M

steve2006 · September 17, 2015

If it turns out to be an expensive fix you have consumer rights from buying from a dealer.

mk_lon · September 17, 2015

Hi Steve,

I was just about to update my post and you beat me to it ☺

I called the trader and he said "its normal with the IS, you probably went over a pothole or something. Bring it down and I'll turn it off..."

Hopefully that would be the end of that

Kind Regards,

M

is200 Newbie · September 18, 2015

Its not normal - if that was the case you would have disco lights on the dash every time you went over pot holes. Typical trader response now you have paid for the car.

Yes - get the fault read ASAP as it could reveal an issue with something and if done early then you can go back to the trader pretty sharpish.

Ask your garage to record the fault codes down for you (there may be a history of codes if the trader has not cleared then down before selling) Post the codes here and I am sure we will all let you know the best routes to take.

mk_lon · September 18, 2015

Thanks for the advice, I was due to see the trader today as he said he would sort it out (probably reset the thing) but he could'nt see me today and told me to come back to him on Monday ....

I'll keep you updated on this. Thank you once again for your advice, you have been really helpful.

is200 Newbie · September 18, 2015

You can buy a Bluetooth OBD reader from fleabay and download an app to run it - reader costs 10 £ and they are handy to have to read any codes for the future. The socket for this is under the steering wheel in the footwell.

Have a look at item number 121762797822

If still getting it read by the trader make sure you see the codes stored as they may fob you off. Once cleared, if its a permanent error it will re-appear. If it does clear then it may be a gremlin but worth looking at the part the code relates to.

Its a 5 minute job to check the code (if that) ... seems strange that the trader had no time to do it ?? Does your mate with the 250 have a reader?

mk_lon · September 18, 2015

Thanks for the advice on the reader, I'll try to get hold of one asap.

My mate doesn't know anything much about cars and doesn't have one. Ironically he bought one as a run around from a private seller and his brother drives it pretty harshly, they have had it for 6months and they have never had a problem!!

mk_lon · September 21, 2015

Hi Is200 Newbie,

A quick update, I went to see the trader and he plugged the OBD reader infront of me, the code came up as P2195, which he then cleared.

I raised the point that its a problem with the 02 sensor, he said "listen if it comes up again, call me we can talk about it".

Upon further discussion he said he is a reasonable man, he won't leave me high and dry. He will do the labor for free but I'll have to pay for the part because its not a major mechanical problem and the warrente as an independent trader is only for major mechanical etc.... then as a good will gesture he gave me tinted windows for the rear ....they are clip on.

I took the approach that something is better than nothing and left. Do I have something to worry about regarding the 02 sensors?

Ps I live in London so I don't drive much and mostly sit in traffic, I imagine that's not a good thing with IS250.

Kind Regards,

Mo

is200 Newbie · September 21, 2015

Looks like your air/fuel ratio sensor is on its way out

Look at a post I put up in August last year on how to replace this - Bank 1 / Sensor 1 is the easiest one to replace. Parts will cost you around £160 (for 2 sensors or £80 for one) and fitting is easy, the only special tool you will need is shown in the guide (sensor removal tool)

Get an original part (Denso) and its advisable to change both sensors although that's entirely up to you if you want to or not.

Theres a recommendation to change these around 70k so it not really a fault, just part of the maintenance. If the fault has cleared and not come back on straight away then you might be lucky and it may have thrown a spurious fault to the ECU and hence the light coming on. If it comes on again (which was the case with mine) then I would look for a replacement sensor(s) as it will continue to come on / go off until it stays on.

I ran mine for a week - short trips with the light on as I had no option but I would not recommend running it for longer period as you could ruin your cats. The exhaust tips on mine after running for the week were caked in soot.

The replacement of this sensor is easy. The other one, bank 2 / sensor 1 is a bit more fiddly as you need small hands but do-able. I have put up a how to on that also.

Lexus will charge you approx. £650 (the quote I had last year) for supply and fit. After I replaced mine the car was smoother and more fuel efficient so a worthwhile job to do. What's the mileage of your car? If you cant manage this job then it would be easy for an indie garage to replace.

mk_lon · September 21, 2015

My mileage is currently 63,000

I saw your guide and was really impressed with the level of detail you had on it. I'll probably have take it to an independent garage as I am crap with my hands.

I have read quite a few of your posts and have been surprised by how many things have been going wrong on your Lexus but equally impressed at how you managed to correct most of it yourself, you are a legend !!!

is200 Newbie · September 21, 2015

To be honest, all I have changed has been wear and tear and easily doable yourself.

Things wrong during ownership have all been (or most of them) expected failures from what others have had - a list of things below...

Exhaust

Rear calipers x 2

Front calipers x 2 - Although I done these as a precaution

2 x sensors (only one had gone, replaced the second as a precaution)

DVD player is now not working

Mirrors - tilt failed, now working

The only two real costly things are the exhaust and the DVD player although I have seen DVD's on eBay for around £100. I find it easy to work on. Next jobs will be plugs / DVD if I can find one and to get the exhaust working right.

You will always find things wrong with a car when you buy it as you really have no idea how its been looked after and if you look after it it will last you well.

If you only ever do a service and a few checks on these then you should be motoring for a long time.

mk_lon · September 23, 2015

Hi Is250 newbie,

The dreaded light came on again today and I knew time was up. I searched for a Denso front 02 sensor as per your post and ordered one along with a OBD meter too.

I paid £93 inc vat and shipping to a UK company import carparts, i have the link bellow, let me know your thoughts and if its worth sharing with other members.

Whilst eBay was almost £20 cheaper, I would have to wait almost a week and a half minimum, I realized I need to react fast with this trader and paid the premium.

http://www.importcarparts.co.uk/parts-info?id=11426&cat=2070⊂=2080&sec=2083&var=0&dc=&gen=&searchKey=&searchPart=

Kind Regards,

Mo

is200 Newbie · September 23, 2015

It looks like the correct part although a different make from the OEM Denso, expensive but like you have said you have paid for the premium delivery.

I bought OEM from the USA but was prepared to wait the week it took to get here. Keep an eye out on the other sensor.

Just check if you do need to order another one for Bank 2 - check the wire length. The Denso ones can be used either side due to the length of wire being sufficient. I am not sure of any other makes being long enough to do both sides.

Are you fitting this one yourself?

mk_lon · September 23, 2015

Hi Is250newbie,

The sensor in the link is made by Denso, I called them and they confirmed that too, it says in the description that it is for either side so hopefully I should be covered :outforcount:

The trader said he would get his mechanic to fit it too, as a precaution I have also purchased a 22mm 7/8 socket - open ended sensor socket just in case.