Tesla Model S 85 Test Drive Report

[DJP]

I thought it best to start a new thread rather than continue the Infiniti one that sort of kicked this off.

The location was the Tesla unit in the London White City Westfield shopping centre. The unit itself has one car in it and a chassis, plus various merchandising that I didn't even look at. I was booked in for 2pm and after a quick check of the driving licence it was down to the underground car park where Tesla have a bank of their super charge units and about 4 cars.

I'm no motoring journo, and in all honesty there was too much for me to take in to be able to provide a comprehensive review. Anyway, here are my impressions and thoughts, for what they are worth.

A lovely looking car, beautifully aerodynamic and more curved than aggressive styling. I liken the IS300h F Sport as a sheep in wolfs clothing, the Tesla is the other way around.

Right from the off its an experience of a different kind. The 'key' is a little car and double tapping opens the boot or bonnet (frunk I think they call it) depending on where you tap. The door handles are flush to the body and then extend when you unlock the car, which I think it did automatically as you get close, a little like the Lexus but without the hand intervention.

Without doubt the single biggest thing to get your head, or more accurately your eyes around, is the17" iPad/tablet touchscreen right in the middle of the centre console. It is simply enormous and would take some getting used to. It almost looks ridiculous until you start to use it. Having got used to it though I suspect going back to the standard size screen would be difficult. As far as I could tell everything is controlled from the touchscreen, which was very intuitive and very apple like in that respect (maybe they provide the software, I don't know).

You want to open the sunroof? Touch it on the screen and drag it down to where you want it to open to. All sorts of settings just a couple of taps away, makes the Lexus interface look like, well, torturous in the extreme. The sat nav interface was google maps based I think and the car comes with free wifi. When I thought I'd be clever and say what happens when I'm somewhere with no internet a tap on the screen and on the display comes the back up sat nav, Garmin I think using standard GPS etc.

The car is ready to go as soon as you sit in it, no button to press. Foot on the brake, select drive using the column stalk and glide away. I had a good 25 mins in both heavy traffic and on the dual carriageway. Oh boy, it's unreal. It's difficult to describe but similar to wafting around in the 300h on electric only except for one difference. You don't waft. You just arrive at a point in distance much faster than you think is possible in virtual silence. It's amazing. I had a motorbike tailgating me, floored it and left him for dead. He caught up and had a good look to see what had done for him. It's totally effortless and a joy, unless you want growls and dramas and all that it usually associated with speed. I suppose in that respect the adrenaline doesn't quite get going, which could be a bit dangerous as it's difficult to realise just how quick you are going.

I'd read a couple of reports suggesting the interior wasn't up to the price tag in certain places. I didn't spend much time assessing the quality of the leather or the plastics but it all seemed pretty luxurious to me.

So what about the range etc etc? I guess everybody will have different thresholds and requirements. My journeys are generally quite short and certainly well within the range. I could probably hook a car up to my mains every evening and never run out of juice. On the occasions I'm doing more miles I'd have to undertake more planning than now, that's for sure, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker.

I think my worry would be an emergency where I've suddenly got to do the 200 mile round trip to my elderly Mother. There's a couple of motorway services I could stop at, but batteries don't yet charge quick enough.

Lots to think about that's for sure, but if you were to ask me whether I'm likely to be a full EV owner in the future, I think it would probably be a yes. Would it be a Tesla? It certainly ticks every box I can think of, and from what I've seen so far I like the ethos of the company.

Last couple of points, the Battery packs can be swapped out very easily, and as the technology improves a Battery upgrade is very doable.

I haven't looked at the detail but they do a finance package where they guarantee the car has a 50% residual after 3 years.

It's certainly an interesting time and I'm going to head to out to their Crawley site and have a drive on some A and B roads, see how the handling is round corners etc.

I'm happy to try and answer any questions and all of this is of course just my opinion and experience.

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

[ColinBarber]

Which model was it? 85, 85D, P85D or a P85D with ludicrous mode enabled?

Once they get supercharge stations at motorway service stations then it becomes a good option. Something like 170 miles range in a 30 minute charge.

[DJP]

It was the 85 with most of the options on it. It had everything Lexus offer (as far as I know) blind spot monitor, 360 degree monitoring, reversing camera. They only item it didn't have was ventilated seats. It was on 19" wheels which he said were the most popular.

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

[Lexmanic]

Very informative thanks

Q? have they addressed the fact that because of their internet connection they can be hacked AND more importantly fully controlled by the hacker leaving the driver helpless to do anything, they cant even stop the car or engine

[ColinBarber]

Telsa issued an update the day the hack was announced. They are able to remotely upgrade all the vehicles.

[DJP]

Telsa issued an update the day the hack was announced. They are able to remotely upgrade all the vehicles.

The ability to upgrade the software over the air is one of the things that attracts me to the brand. The improvements to technology come so quickly these days is good to know when you buy into it you won't be left behind. Similar to the Battery situation, sure it will cost, but to know you can upgrade without having to buy a whole new car is refreshing.

The "product expert" also mentioned they are bringing to market a 3 series size car in 2017, now that could really set the cat amongst the pigeons.

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

[Lexmanic]

Yes as I subscribe to some very good security forums I understand the patch to which you refer has already been compromised by hackers.

Updating via the internet is great but all security experts are complaining that before installing that ability it needs to be thoroughly tested to make such possibilties impossible.

Recently a Jeep with internet connection was hacked in a controlled experiment by 2 IT students using an iPad over a distance of 10miles! They not only took complete control of the Jeep they were aalso able to transmit their live pictures onto the Jeeps dash display screen.

In fact they controlled ALL of the vehicles functions including worst of all the streering the throttle and brakes

Please note this experiment was undertaken with the owner/drivers consent

[ganzoom]

Glad to hear you didn't find the interior finish disappointing, that's about the only bad point people have raised about the Model S :)

The charging/range issue is non-issue with something like a Model S, unless you doing 300 miles a day for your commute. Unlike petrol cars, you can charge/fill up you EV at home. Most people cars spend most of their lives sat on the drive doing nothing, with an EV you simply plug the car in when your done for the day, and wake up next morning with a fully charged car. On a Model S 200 miles is easily with in it's range....Trust me, once you get your head around not needing to go and visit petrol stations, it's actually much more convenient than any normal car.

The 3 series sized car is going to be first shown off in Early 2016, so not long to wait :D. It's probably the car that will make or brake Tesla. Musk is promising to deliver 200 miles of real life range (45-50kWh Battery?), for a cost of less than $35,000 (£30,000??) - so half the price of the Model S/X. But I wouldn't hold off ordering a Model S to wait for the Model 3. The 3 will be aimed at a different market, made from steel rather than aluminium, have less options, and unlikely to offer the same range as the Model S to keep costs down. But Tesla have teased a very limited preview of the Model 3, and it doesn't look half bad..

I'm 12 month away from putting a order down (Due to been tied into my Leaf PCP contract), but 12 months in the world of Tesla is the equivalent for 5 years for another manufacture. Pretty much the entire product range has been updated since summer 2014, with the imminent arrival of auto-pilot (self steering on M ways, and self parking), Musk saying expect 5-10% more Battery charger every 12 month, the Model X about to hit the street and details about the Model S in Early 2016, I honestly have no idea what the Tesla product line will look like come summer 2016. All I know is that short of Audi coming out with a Tesla killer, my future car fund will be going into the pockets of Tesla...sooner rather than later.

I do wish Lexus would put a full EV power train in the IS, the only thing I don't like about our IS300H is the internal combustion engine, but sadly it looks like Toyota is still obsessed with hydrogen fuel cells cars - so I cannot see us buying another Lexus for while :(

Oh if you want to order a Model S you can get £1000 off the price through a referral system they are running.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=247&t=1532145&mid=63701&nmt=Tesla+Referral+code+available,+£1,000+discount+on+Model+S+++

[DJP]

I'm not ready to pull the trigger for a while, and the Tesla is certainly well in the running. I'm not sure I'll buy brand new though. Although the experience is a great one the depreciation is a killer, especially as I like changing my cars every few years. We will see, I've time to do some more research!

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

[PhilipK]

The charging/range issue is non-issue with something like a Model S, unless you doing 300 miles a day for your commute. Unlike petrol cars, you can charge/fill up you EV at home. Most people cars spend most of their lives sat on the drive doing nothing, with an EV you simply plug the car in when your done for the day, and wake up next morning with a fully charged car.

That's fine if you have a driveway or garage to keep the car on overnight.

How about all the people whose cars are parked on the street at night?

[ColinBarber]

Yes as I subscribe to some very good security forums I understand the patch to which you refer has already been compromised by hackers.

Updating via the internet is great but all security experts are complaining that before installing that ability it needs to be thoroughly tested to make such possibilties impossible.

Recently a Jeep with internet connection was hacked in a controlled experiment by 2 IT students using an iPad over a distance of 10miles! They not only took complete control of the Jeep they were aalso able to transmit their live pictures onto the Jeeps dash display screen.

In fact they controlled ALL of the vehicles functions including worst of all the streering the throttle and brakes

Please note this experiment was undertaken with the owner/drivers consent

The different is Chrysler, and the rest of the established brands, don't have a clue about security. Researchers have already taken control of Prius systems, albeit with the need for initial physical access, and the Lexus Smart Access is easy to bypass etc.

Tesla have some well known security researchers now working for them, and the hackers noted that the security system in the Tesla vehicles is well designed. The OTA update hasn't been compromised, only signed code can be installed.

[ganzoom]

The lack of no-reliable of off road parking is an issue, but in regards to a Tesla Model S its probably not as big issue as people think. If you can afford a £50K (base price) saloon, its very likely you have access to off road parking. Indeed with Teslas range of 250 miles +, if you live in a place like London that kind of range is probably enough for a few weeks of driving without charging. Dont forget Tesla Superchargers currently can deliver 170 miles of charge every 30 minutes and that figure will likely increase soon with the introduction of liquid cooled cables, they are also FREE to use for the life of the car!!

The need for reliable off road/destination charging is much more of an issue for cars like the Leaf (which I currently own). But actually if you look around your find there are now lots of public destination chargers around - e.g.: Free charging at supermarkets, car parks. and rapid chargers - I live 2 mile away from my local Nissan dealer who have a free to use rapid charger (0-80% in 30 minutes), and work about 3 miles away from a motorway service station which has x4 free to use rapid chargers.

So despite me having a home charging point installed, ive only used 135 kWh of electricity at home (£16 worth) to charge my car in 5 month and 2300 miles+ of daily use.

AutoExpress are been very brave and running a Kia EV for 6 months with no access to home charging, and they managed to cover nearly 3000 miles in that time period.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/kia/soul/89971/long-term-test-review-kia-soul-ev

Incidentally it took a electrician about 2 hrs to install my home 7 KW car charger, so increasing destination EV charging isnt hard compared to building more rapid chargers or hydrogen fuel stations. BMW have proposed the idea of putting charge points into street lamps, which actually isnt a bad idea, given they are already have an electric point and near the road side.

One thing Im sure about, charging infrastructure is getting better, and quickly .

What I find really frustrating is the fact out of all the current car manufactures, Toyota has by far the best knowledge and capability to challenge Tesla with a Battery EV, but seem to be purely devoted to hydrogen fuel cell (unlike BMW/Audi who are still hedging their bets). I do understand Toyotas argument about limitation of rapid charging on Battery EVs - Current limit for lithium ion Battery technology will probably top-out at 180-200KW of charge rate - so about 100 miles of range per 10 minutes.

But hydrogen fuel cells are just so much more complex to develop/build than a Battery, and equally the first public hydrogen fuel stations opened recently in LA and arent exactly problem free, and far from been a straight forward process like filling up a petrol car. I suspect by the time Toyota sorts out the issue around hydrogen fuel cells, next generation batteries which are currently in the labs will be in mass production and will be able to deliver 500 miles + of range, and charge at stupid rates. Tesla have already introduced a Silicon anode into their latest P90D-L Battery packs, in theory this could increase energy density of lithium-ion batteries, by allowing reduction in weight whilst increasing energy storage.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/ca-fuel-cell-owners-complain-of-unreliable-hydrogen-stations-89192.html

http://www.gizmag.com/silicon-anode-battery/36152/

[ganzoom]

I'm not ready to pull the trigger for a while, and the Tesla is certainly well in the running. I'm not sure I'll buy brand new though. Although the experience is a great one the depreciation is a killer, especially as I like changing my cars every few years. We will see, I've time to do some more research!

Though it may sound like I’m ready to jump on the Tesla bandwagon, for me £50K+ is a stupid amount of money to spend on a car no matter how good, so I need to be sure what ever I get will deliver at least some value for money/future proofing. The technology is currently developing very quickly and your money will get you more in 12-24 months time compared to now, ofcourse you could argue there is always a better car round the corner, but much like smart phones, once the technology matures the advances will become less game changing. For example I’ve now had my Iphone 5 for 2 years, and have no interest in getting the Iphone 6S etc simply because the 5 already does what I want perfectly.

The problem with buying a used Tesla at the moment in 2-3 years time the current crop of cars will be very dated (technologically speaking). The introduction of the a silicon anode in the latest P90D-L model is a major change in Battery chemistry, which could see lighter Battery packs coming soon (therefore greater range).

For now I’m quite happy to watch and wait, my Leaf contract expires in early 2017, so perfectly timed for the release date of the Model 3, or to pick up a used Model S….A very nice position to be in, so cannot complain too much :D

[ganzoom]

Just had another look at the state of hydrogen fuel stations in California, out of the 9 stations open to the pubic, only 3 (33%) appear to be working with no issues.

Another 40-50 stations are planned by Q1 2016, but only about 8 appear to have started construction. As much as I like to believe hydrogen fuel cell cars are part of the future, the realities are the challenges associated with implementing the technology in real life seems far too complex, especially compared to Battery EVs.

http://fuelcellfuture.org/index.php/fueling-stations

[DJP]

I'm not ready to pull the trigger for a while, and the Tesla is certainly well in the running. I'm not sure I'll buy brand new though. Although the experience is a great one the depreciation is a killer, especially as I like changing my cars every few years. We will see, I've time to do some more research!

Though it may sound like Im ready to jump on the Tesla bandwagon, for me £50K+ is a stupid amount of money to spend on a car no matter how good, so I need to be sure what ever I get will deliver at least some value for money/future proofing. The technology is currently developing very quickly and your money will get you more in 12-24 months time compared to now, ofcourse you could argue there is always a better car round the corner, but much like smart phones, once the technology matures the advances will become less game changing. For example Ive now had my Iphone 5 for 2 years, and have no interest in getting the Iphone 6S etc simply because the 5 already does what I want perfectly.

The problem with buying a used Tesla at the moment in 2-3 years time the current crop of cars will be very dated (technologically speaking). The introduction of the a silicon anode in the latest P90D-L model is a major change in Battery chemistry, which could see lighter Battery packs coming soon (therefore greater range).

For now Im quite happy to watch and wait, my Leaf contract expires in early 2017, so perfectly timed for the release date of the Model 3, or to pick up a used Model S.A very nice position to be in, so cannot complain too much :D

I thought Tesla were making sure all their cars always had the most up to date software, even the older ones? That's part of the OTA attraction. The ability to swap out the batteries is attractive too, at least it's trying to future proof the car somewhat, albeit at a cost.

[ganzoom]

Tesla are working hard on their auto-pilot software/hardware. The early 2014 cars don't have the necessary sensors, so when the auto-pilot software is finally rolled out, early 2014 cars will not be able to benefit.

The Battery swap is definitely possible, in-theroy you could buy a used 60 kWh Battery version and get Tesla to put in a brand new 90 kWh Battery, but so far Tesla have pretty much said no to that idea. They are still in the buissness of making £££, they would much rather sell you a brand new £60K car than a £20K Battery. Though that might change in the future, who knows??

Unless your in a rush I would wait until the Model X comes out (Late Sep) and see what the Model 3 will looks like (Q1 2106) before jumping in.

...incidentally how long was your test drive, and how hard was it to arrange?? I'll be in the Westfields area next Sunday for a family meal.....might end up been a bit late to the meal if I can fit a quick detour to Westfields en-route :)

[DJP]

Thanks Gang, very informative! I'm not in a rush (although I generally find instant gratification is too slow) as I've a year or so left on my Lexus PCP. However, much as I love the IS I really don't see me paying off the balloon and keeping it!

Both the new Tesla's look interesting, I like the NX F Sport too so it could be an interesting year or so. Unfortunately my wife finds this all very wearing and dull so thank goodness for forums like this!

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

[Valkirk]

Very informative thanks

Q? have they addressed the fact that because of their internet connection they can be hacked AND more importantly fully controlled by the hacker leaving the driver helpless to do anything, they cant even stop the car or engine

That hack actually required the hacker to be attached to the network socket inside the car, it wasn't a hack that could work from the internet, that said I still hope all these manufacturers build in protection with sanity checks (not sure why common sense never seems to occur in these sort of things) something like if the car is in use then no remote operations are allowed

[Lexmanic]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tesla-model-s-hacked-researchers-discover-six-security-flaws-popular-electric-car-1514352

The testers have only made known 1 of the hacks because Tesler had already provided a patch but that leaves at least another 5 they found which I understand have not yet been addressed

[ColinBarber]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tesla-model-s-hacked-researchers-discover-six-security-flaws-popular-electric-car-1514352

The testers have only made known 1 of the hacks because Tesler had already provided a patch but that leaves at least another 5 they found which I understand have not yet been addressed

“Tesla has taken a number of different measures to address the effects of all six vulnerabilities reported by [the researchers],” a Tesla spokeswoman told WIRED in an email. “In particular, the path that the team used to achieve root (superuser) privileges on the infotainment system has been closed off at several different points.” She also noted that the effects of some other vulnerabilities have been mitigated. “In particular, the browser has been further isolated from the rest of the infotainment system using several different layered methods.”

[ganzoom]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tesla-model-s-hacked-researchers-discover-six-security-flaws-popular-electric-car-1514352

The testers have only made known 1 of the hacks because Tesler had already provided a patch but that leaves at least another 5 they found which I understand have not yet been addressed

My last car with a E90 BMW 335i. During 2012 it came clear ALL E90 and a number of other BMWs could be stolen without their keys in a matter of minutes. Infact for a period you could even buy the key cloning hardware off eBay quite legally for a few hundred pounds.

It took BMW over 2 years to acknowledge there was a problem with their security, and even when they did a release software update the dealers didn't offer it to customers unless you phone up in person. There are more than a few stories on the forums about owners having their cars stolen a few months after been serviced by a BMW main dealer, but the dealer didn't apply the software patch during servicing because the customers didn't specifically ask for it!! The software patch was also bypassed with-in a period of a few month.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/ntp0Bww470DzXyMNBnTjg9/car-security

The end result meant for the last 2 years every night when I parked up the BMW, I had the pleasure of fitting one of these things to the steering wheel. So I'm not sure what your point about security hacks is, as far as am aware virtually every security system is hackable, Tesla is no different.

[ColinBarber]

as far as am aware virtually every security system is hackable, Tesla is no different.

The difference is that Tesla will actively work with the white hat hackers to resolve the issue and employ people who know what they are doing, which results in fixes within days rather than years :)

Personally I'd feel safer in a Tesla compared to a BMW or Lexus.

[PhilipK]

The lack of no-reliable of off road parking is an issue, but in regards to a Tesla Model S its probably not as big issue as people think. If you can afford a £50K (base price) saloon, its very likely you have access to off road parking. Indeed with Teslas range of 250 miles +, if you live in a place like London that kind of range is probably enough for a few weeks of driving without charging. Dont forget Tesla Superchargers currently can deliver 170 miles of charge every 30 minutes

Not sure that I'd agree about parking. In London and other affluent areas you see plenty of £50k+ cars parked on street. I live in the centre of Winchester, and houses with garages sell at a huge premium - a single parking space (with no possibility of building a garage on it) recently sold for £40k - so off-street parking is often not an option.

But the elephant in the room for me is the 170 miles per 30 minute charge. I mean, my cars take 3 minutes to fuel and will run for 300-400 miles until they need refueling. How would you use a Tesla on (for example) a run to the south of France? Or even London to Edinburgh? Stop every 2.5 hours for a 30 minute break (assuming that there's an appropriate recharging point available at just the right place)?

The recharging technology would need to improve by orders of magnitude before I'd even start to consider one.

[ganzoom]

Ah I see you belong to the 'I must have a car that can drive for 8hr non stop' club.

I've driven for 4hrs non stop once in the last 10 years, and to be honest that was pretty stupid in terms of tiredness.

If you dont want to take a break every 250-300 miles of driving than clearly a Tesla isn't for you.

As for Europe, I've already planned out a trip to the 'Atlantic highway' via Tesla superchargers, and the fuel cost of the trip will be £0 :)

http://m.autoevolution.com/tesla-model-s-roadtrip-from-oslo-to-london-costs-only-5-video-95328.html

Yes there are still 'challenges' to EVs, but rather than dismissing EVs based on what ever reasons you want to come up with, why not try one and than decided. I've yet to see a bad word written about the Tesla from anyone who's actually driven one.....Maybe you can be the first :)

[ganzoom]

For longer distance charging these are all the Supercharger points in Europe, and the numbers will continue to increase.

and these are all the other 'Rapid' chargers which are currently mostly free to use. They are slower than Tesla superchargers but at 50KW.