Headlamp Leaking?

gib · December 30, 2003

Had an interesting discussion with Lexus Edinburgh - I found the need to bring to their attention of what would appear to be a inherent fault with the front nearside headlamp on my Lexus IS - I told them that it would appear to be letting in water and as such mists/condenses. This significantly impairs visibility at night. the only way to get rid of the water is by removing all the bulbs and letting dry overnight (turning the headlamps on doesn't dry the headlamp out). I am told that this is not a fault, but, ahem, a ''characteristic'' of the Lexus as there is no air circulation behind the headlamp as opposed to the front offside light !! Bemused.......this cannot be right.....surely?. My car would fail its MOT if I attended with the headlamp like that - can anyone help or provide advice - my car is out of warrantly now.

Monster-Mat · December 30, 2003

your correct it is an MOT fail point,

it is known that some headlights leak, and are therefore changed under warrenty, id contact Lexus GB and tell them your not happy if your dealer doesnt sort something out

martymc · January 3, 2004

gib,

Lexus Glasgow have replaced both my headlights and one foglight under warranty for the same problem - despite the fact that when it eventually went to the dealer for repair both were bone dry...If you reported the fault when the car was still in warranty...complain bitterly to the DP :yack:

Marty

gib · January 4, 2004

Unfortunately, the car is out of warranty - Lexus say they have developed a test to see if it is leaking or not, takes 15mins, I am told - still not convinced by theie excuse for misting up though!

Thanks

stu sandy · January 4, 2004

my n/s light is doing the same, i spoke to lexus poole who are going to submit an out of warranty claim on my behalf my warranty ran out on Dec 18th if this does not work then iam going to complain to lexus customer relations, shake the tree to see what happens, you can also remove the bulb and use a hair dryer to dry the light out but as there is a fault the water will come back.

Does anyone have a lexus contact in the america as you can bet the lights are cheaper there if my claim fails .

gib · January 4, 2004

Yep, tried the hairdryer trick - the problem just returns - I'll see how I get on with Lexus - if not I've got a part lined up from a salvage dealer - the problem is installing the headlamp as you have to take the bumper off - handy!!

Zee007 · January 4, 2004

problem is installing the headlamp as you have to take the bumper off - handy!!

Click here for workshop article on how to remove the front bumper!

LexusEdinburgh · January 5, 2004

Can I clarify this issue please?

If there is moisture inside the headlamp there are 2 options, either it is condensation or water ingress. Most cases are from dew condensation, which is not caused by a parts failure.

Dew Condensation.

When the lens surface is cooled, moisture in the air inside the headlamp condenses on the inside lens surface resulting in a foggy appearance. This is happens the same way as your house windows mist in the winter or the outside of your beer glass gets wet in the summer.

We do have a test which enables us to judge what type of water is in the headlamp and if it is dew condensation, I can assure everyone that there is no reduction in performance of the headlamp and it is my understanding that this would not be an MOT fail point.

Water Ingress

If the headlamp ‘failed’ due to manufacturing defect, it would be replaced under the Lexus warranty.

Ian

Scorpion · January 5, 2004

You do not need to take the bumper off to take the h/lights out.

Fidgits · January 5, 2004

You do not need to take the bumper off to take the h/lights out.

and here is a handy workshop article on how to do it without removing the bumper...

squarehead · January 5, 2004

Did it work?

Scorpion · January 5, 2004

Did what work..?

cheeky · January 5, 2004

gib · January 5, 2004

To Ian,

I thank you for your input here i had a horrendous experience with Specialist Cars Volkswagen a couple of years ago, who literally could not care less about customer relations - the German manufacturers need to waken up.........

Anyway, whilst i do not dispute your expertise on the matter, why don't all headlamps regardless of make mist up - the wifes Ford Ka doesn't !!

Anyway I think i have leak, so to speak, in my nearside headlight - car is out of warranty so I have managed to source a salvage part - heres hoping thats ok

p.s. my foglights have started to mist up too - zoiks !!!!

Long live the Ford Ka !!

Thanks for everyones help

kev dood · January 8, 2004

Sorry, not quite sure I agree with Edinburghs quote about air inside headlight condensing up.

The headlight is a sealed unit, so the air inside it will be just about dry as can be seeing as it was assembled in a factory! If it was indeed this case, then surely it would always happen and to all lights?

I would rather go for the "headlamp is not fully sealed" answer!

ColinBarber · January 8, 2004

It isn't sealed though. I think the rear cover must allow air in.

kev dood · January 8, 2004

ahhh, of course it isn't, there is a blooming bulb sticking in the rear of it!! How dumb am I?? - don't answer that!

stu sandy · January 8, 2004

just read what was sent to this site by ian at lexus edinburgh what a complete load of b/s if he is right why dont both headlamps fill up, why as is the case with me and indeed all other posts is it just the n/s one, why does it take maybe a year or in my case three years to fail.

the fault with these lights must be the seal between the lens and the light casing, supras suffered the very same fault. Maybe they also suffer from DEW.l

LexusEdinburgh · January 9, 2004

The ‘B/S’ I am talking is very simple physics.

It is a business I am running here, LGB pay me to carryout warranty work. It is NOT in my interests to NOT carry that work out, however, in this instance, replacement of the headlamp will not fix this natural phenomenon.

Before I started with Lexus I was with BMW, the 3 series experienced the same thing.

The following are my thoughts on what happens not an official Lexus answer.

If you lift bonnet and look behind the lights you will see the N/S headlamp has an ECU housing and the water bottle right behind it. This reduces airflow, which then heats the N/S headlamp to a higher temp vs. the O/S. Over time the ‘factory air’ will be contaminated by local air through a small breather in the back of the headlamp. Just a guess but this may well happen faster in the N/S because of the differential in the heating and cooling process. When the hotter air in the N/S lamp is exposed to the colder air surrounding the plastic lens it forces the moisture in the air inside the headlamp to condense on the inside of the lens. You then have the misting. The reason this is a fairly new thing is that until recently the lens have been made from glass, this has a lower thermal insulation properties to plastic and the result now is a higher air temp in the headlamp.

Just because something happens a certain way, it does not automatically make it someone’s fault!

As I said before, the performance of the headlamp is not reduced in anyway, it may not be as attractive as we would like but the only cast iron solution would be to move to somewhere with high temps and zero humidity, the Sahara for instance :P .

Jimmy Ten Toes · January 9, 2004

Can I clarify this issue please?
If there is moisture inside the headlamp there are 2 options, either it is condensation or water ingress. Most cases are from dew condensation, which is not caused by a parts failure.

Dew Condensation.

When the lens surface is cooled, moisture in the air inside the headlamp condenses on the inside lens surface resulting in a foggy appearance. This is happens the same way as your house windows mist in the winter or the outside of your beer glass gets wet in the summer.

We do have a test which enables us to judge what type of water is in the headlamp and if it is dew condensation, I can assure everyone that there is no reduction in performance of the headlamp and it is my understanding that this would not be an MOT fail point.

Water Ingress

If the headlamp ‘failed’ due to manufacturing defect, it would be replaced under the Lexus warranty.

Ian

I thought mine had a leak as condensation appeared on the inside. Lexus Hatfield told me exactly the same as Ian in fairness. They tested for 15 mins and it had dissapeared.

marty · January 9, 2004

I thought mine had a leak as condensation appeared on the inside. Lexus Hatfield told me exactly the same as Ian in fairness. They tested for 15 mins and it had dissapeared.

As Ian has said in a previous thread the answer to the question may well be simple physics (either way!), but can he explain the "test" please.

If the test is to simply raise the temperature of the unit (for say 15 mins?) then of course any water will quickly evaporate, as air can aborb a higher level of moisture at higher temperatures before total saturation occurs.

I do agree than colder ambient temperatures will result in precipitation within the lamp unit, but given that the air temperature changes are extremely gradual, (relatively speaking) and the presence of the lamp's breather, then these instances of condensation should be barely noticeable.

The very fact that there is a breather should alleviate this problem. It is also exteremely unlikely (calculation can be done ) for the small volume of air within the lamp unit at any given time to be saturated sufficently to produce this type of noticeable effect.

I do think that the fact that Ian Reynolds takes time to respond in these forums is admirable (keep it up Ian) and know that I'll be making the horrendous journey there from Glasgow when I'm due to renew.

marty · January 9, 2004

just read what was sent to this site by ian at lexus edinburgh what a complete load of b/s if he is right why dont both headlamps fill up, why as is the case with me and indeed all other posts is it just the n/s one, why does it take maybe a year or in my case three years to fail.
the fault with these lights must be the seal between the lens and the light casing, supras suffered the very same fault. Maybe they also suffer from DEW.l

Don't really think this was called for given that Ian has at least made the effort to explain....and promised a good discount for Gold Members :D .

This type of post can only help to chase away those trade peeps who can prove soooo useful.

LexusEdinburgh · January 15, 2004

Hi Marty

The ‘test’ is very simple.

We turn the lights on for 10 mins and if the mist disappears from where the light passes through, then it is not a fail.

I hope this is of help.

Thank you for the defense there but in this industry you need to have very thick skin :winky:

Ian

Scorpion · January 15, 2004

I've got a misting problem on mine bit its no biggie i will just remove it and make a better seal,its an hours work.

If people have a problem with misting h/lights then contact Lexus GB not Ian from Lexus Edinburgh

stu sandy · January 19, 2004

result guys in the saga of the leaking lights car out of warranty but lexus are going to pay for new ones, i feel i have to say sorry to the guy from lexus who went to the trouble to tell us why the lights on the n/s mist up i was harsh in my reply however i still cant buy in to the theory the reason for this is that my o/s light has done the very same thing as my n/s one, both lexus southampton and lexus poole say they are defective due to the seal between the lens and the casing allowing water into the lens, which in fairness is what i thought was wrong.

however lexus poole contacted lexus uk who agreed to foot the bill,

they did say that lexus are getting tighter as people are buying is200's from auctions and then claiming for good will work to be done when the car is not under warranty

so maybe get in quick whille you can

later.