Mot Gloom

runsgrateasanut · July 22, 2015

"Massive fail" the mechanic said to the Receptionist who asked about the Lexus MOT, I thought rather indelicately as I was within earshot.

"Will be with you in a minute Sir as just dealing with these people" when he noticed me..

So I sat looking at the brand new Mondeo etc in the Showroom waiting somewhat crestfallen for the verdict. He kept me waiting a further five minutes whilst I now recognise he was pricing up the repair costs online.

Came to £1,779.18 when he eventually called me to the desk.

Well, it wasn't quite as bad as I thought.

The good news? the Car had passed the emissions - Hooray! I didn't see the figures but it passed.

First and Second on the list were the Control Arm perished gaitors. (I was told by others and himself later) that they could not remove things and so my clingfilm and insulating tape must have been disturbed to see the rubber problem. - I kept the old Gaitors so can be replace and problem solved.

Offside front A-roll bar linkage excessive play. OK Just bought two (not knowing if they'd send me the wrong side) from Rock cost £59 - against Lexus price for one £95.36 + VAT.

Advisorys

Slight leak engine/ gearbox - asked for where, he said he couldn't remove the undertray to check!! No, but he can remove clingfilm and tape!

Front tyres wearing on inner edges - actually outer edge on one, and have two new tyres plus set of alloys to be fitted.

O/S/R tyre 3mm tread Thought rears were OK and planned to use on new wheels? Maybe not.

I'd booked my mechanic to replace various pieces of brake pipe but he'll need do these things instead.
No mention this time of rusting rear springs or brake pipe or rear wishbones all of which I have sitting in packaging in my dining room!!

Maybe not such a "massive fail" as suggested.

Colin M · July 22, 2015

I doesn't sound like a massive fail at all, although it would be a massive bill if you had the work done by them.

Re the old rubber gaiters that you still have, can you post up the internal diameter of both the small hole and the large hole in the gaiter, and the uncompressed height of the rubber gaiter?

It may be possible to obtain a replacement rubber gaiter that will fit over the joint. There are various size gaiters that can be bought and it would be good to know whether there is one available that will fit.

I will do a bit of searching online to see whether I can find anything if you can post up the measurements.

Thanks.

runsgrateasanut · July 23, 2015

Good thinking Colin, but the smaller aperture is a bonded hard plastic. Daresay it doesnt matter as long as you get a couple of years or so from the cheaper UCA's,

I missed from the list of faults one lower Ball joint - I have a pair of Japanese mnfd ones bought via eBay Australia also sitting in the Dining room! So another "to do".

Either cable ties or perhaps S/S ties may be easier to fit than the circlip which is an absolute pain to remove.

Colin M · July 24, 2015

Hello Stuart

Thanks for posting up the dimensions and the photo which is very helpful.

I have not located a gaiter with these exact measurements but have found one with the correct size large hole (38mm) and the two other measurements are around a couple of mm oversize.

The 38mm large hole measurement is, I think, a critical one as it is at the top and needs to be the correct fit to prevent water ingress. The small hole in the one I have found is 19.2mm rather than 17mm but the extra couple of mm might be taken up by a 17mm 'O' ring placed on the ball joint to seal the gap. The height is 26.7mm rather than 25mm but such a minor difference may not matter.

The gaiter is available from southwalesprops.co.uk - if you click on ball joint rubber boots in the left hand margin on the homepage, the boot in question is DC168K.

I think a cable tie would be the best means of securing the boot at the large hole end.

Hope this helps.

runsgrateasanut · July 24, 2015

I'll check them out Colin. I agree that a cable tie is probably the best. I've already ordered Nos. 100 - 200mm by 2.5mm which is the best width and assurred length.

I'm posting a photo of a spare UCA that I purchased as a pair having had a single fitted to my N/S but the single I bought for the O/side was for a Lexus SC. So I bought a pair, and have a spare.

I'm not sure if the rubber gaitor on the "made in China" one that you see here, actually has had the same deterioration of the rubber. I couldn't easily see it when I wrapped it and i don't know if the MOT inspection actually peeled back the cling film and tape to check. If its OK (and I am assured by the seller that they have not had any problems with them) then this will half the work for my mechanic. Interestingly you will see that the style of gaitor is not concertina. Would it even need be? This part does not compress surely?

What I don't know also, is if the rubber in the bushes is also a poor quality and likely to fail? I'll ask my mechanic to look on Monday when he does the work.

runsgrateasanut · July 24, 2015

ps for interest sake - the outer measurement of this rubber is 46mm.

There is about 3mm each side of the inner measure of the OEM rubber gaitor - so compatible

Colin M · July 25, 2015

Thanks, Stuart.

I don't think it should make any difference whether the gaiter is concertina style or not. As you say, the part does not compress. So long as the gaiter covers the joint to prevent the ingress of water, dirt etc, it should be fine.

How long it will last is down the quality of the rubber, or lack of it, and only time will tell.

Gaiters can last a long time - the ones on the track rod ends on my Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire have not needed replacing in the 28 years I have owned the car and the car had been laid up for 10 years before I bought it, so the gaiters are probably 40+ years old!

Malc · July 25, 2015

... guys, when my one side only front UCA had to be replaced for this last MOT ( at 174k miles ) the whole looked in pristine condition and on the face of it looked, ostensibly, like " new " However, the functionality of the innards had lessened effectiveness under pressure and was a " fail "

Had I seen a pair like my dead one for sale, looking in great condition, I'd have probably bought them .... so the moral of the story is ........ if it looks crap and worn then it probably is kaput, if it looks like newish but with 174k miles on it then it too might well be kaput.

Seeing is not always believing !

Malc

runsgrateasanut · July 25, 2015

Colin the DC176K may be a better fit if the lower hole will stretch.

Sorry I've got a bit confused (as will you have withm my thread!!) with RHS/LHS UK/American. Just took off the wrapping to my Drivers side and putting up photo. Now this does not look like the photo of the spare which I show in this thread. I think its also for Drivers side. (Long arm forward)

So, it must be is Chinese Arm (one of the pair) on the N/Side which has disintegrated rubber and the Drivers side is the Taiwan arm which looks OK having unwrapped it.

I wrapped it when the Sun was making it diffcult to see and with the wheel on etc.

So only one needed to be repalced rubber but this spare arm will need the rubber replaced before use at any time. The Yank got it wrong - their stuff is no good unless rubber replaced. As for the bushes? Will wait and see.

runsgrateasanut · July 25, 2015

see this thread for photo of the Nearside arm rubber which matches this Chinese spare.

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/topic/98084-quality-of-non-oem-parts/

Colin M · July 25, 2015

The rubber in the link looks dreadful!!

I'll have a look at the DC176K tomorrow - just on my way out now.

Colin M · July 26, 2015

Yes, DC176K looks a good bet if the rubber in the 13mm hole will stretch enough.

If it does not stretch enough, it might be possible to make the hole a bit bigger by using a round file to file a bit of the rubber off. I managed to do this with a dust boot cover for a brake wheel cylinder that was just too tight a fit to go over the end of the piston.

Colin M · July 26, 2015

Hello Stuart

Another possibility might be to check out the measurements for the lower front suspension ball joint rubber for a Mazda MX5, because the hole sizes might be the same as on the LS400. I have pasted in below a post from the MX5 Owners Club website, on which it is stated that the large hole is 38mm, the small hole 17mm and the height 28mm - see below.

"Not sure on the track rod end size but I have some Genuine Mazda top swivel boots here waiting to fit and they measure about 28 to 30mm for the large hole and 13mm for the small hole and 25mm high, so looks like these you have found may do.

Just for info the lower swivel boots measure large hole 38mm, small hole 17mm and height 28mm approximately.

If you have the suspension appart to change shocks then fitting these at the same time should be fairly easy."

It does say "approximately" when referring to the measurements, so it would be best to check the actual measurements with a supplier. I think the boots are available from Mazda themselves but there are other suppliers - Autolink seems to be mentioned a few times on the MX5 website. The boots are the ones fitted to early MX5s from 1989 to about 1995 - the design was apparently changed on later cars.

Hope this helps.

runsgrateasanut · July 27, 2015

Parts fitted today but turns out that the Gaiters (boots) from previous UCA's (OEM??) are no good as the bottom hole needs be only 13mm and not 17mm. Strange, and can't explain not having kept the old Arms to examine.

Having measured the spare I see thats absolutely the size needed. Fortunately mechanic had a spare. So MX5 size boots good for these Chinese and Taiwanese Arms - Here's hoping the bushes last longer!

Retest Wednesday - fingers crossed.

Colin M · July 28, 2015

Am I correct in thinking, then, that there is a 17mm hole in the boot on OEM arms but only a 13mm hole in the Chinese and Taiwanese arms? If so, strange indeed. Is the hole in the large end of the boot the same I.e. 38mm in both cases?

Hope you get a pass on retest.

Rupert Dubreaux · July 29, 2015

Good luck with your MOT today Stuart .

runsgrateasanut · July 29, 2015

Delighted to say she doesn't have to go on SORN, like apparantly so many are according to DVLA.

So, new Borbet wheels and tyres on, next week me thinks.

and now to tackle all those other issues.

I've never had a car take up so much of my time. Scotty Kilmer say don't buy a Mercedes and I tend to agree if its after 1998 but I have not had anywhere near the amount of heartache as with this Car.

Fact is, once bought they just feel rather special and so the romance goes on irrespective of cost.

Just don't please hit me with a Starter Motor fail or it may tip me over the edge of sanity.

Colin M · July 30, 2015

Pleased to hear it has passed the MOT, Stuart.

There are always jobs that need doing on older cars but, unless you are unlucky, it does not work out as expensive as the depreciation costs involved with newer cars when you keep changing them.

Perhaps you are due a period of trouble-free motoring. Let's hope so!

Anyway, good news on the MOT front.

Colin

runsgrateasanut · July 30, 2015

Thanks Colin, I'm hoping next year will be an expense free year. Drove car today and smiled at the smooth ride and quietness.

runsgrateasanut · August 3, 2015

Yes, DC176K looks a good bet if the rubber in the 13mm hole will stretch enough.

DC176K is the exact size for these Chinese UCA's. I've just removed the original and measured. The two circlips were flimsy wheras getting the OEM ones off was a struggle.

Have to find out how much these replacements are. Hope I don't have to order in bulk.

Can only assume that the OEM UCA has a stem that is wider at the ball end and then steps down to the narrower size.

Colin M · August 4, 2015

That's good to know - thanks, Stuart.

Next time I have a front wheel off, I will check the measurements on mine. I may have OEM arms still on or they may be Chinese ones or some other aftermarket ones - who knows, but they have passed the last two MOTs on each car.

runsgrateasanut · August 4, 2015

Hi Colin, Just come off the phone ordering one of those Boots - £11.34 lighter in the wallet, as sent RD. Will put it on the spare just in case.

If you have originals and you find you have a tear in one let me know and I'll send you one of the two that I took off my OEM(?)'s

Regards

Stuart

Colin M · August 4, 2015

Not cheap for a rubber boot, Stuart, but hopefully the quality is good - perhaps that's why they don't put the price on the website!

Many thanks for the offer of a replacement boot if mine are OEM and get a split in them - I will have a look to see what they are like when I get back from holiday.

Cheers

Colin