Vibration And Noise, More Than Just Balance?

[willydoit]

Hi all,

Have just purchased a 2007 Rx350 with 55k miles, driving it home I noticed that there was a vibration present which I assumed was likely to be a tracking or wheel balance issue.

As most roads nowadays are rubbish the car did seem noisier than I had expected however the majority of this cleared up once I hit some better roads although I noticed that there was noise coming from the rear of the car which altered in pitch depending upon speed. It is difficult to describe the noise, its almost like tyre noise but at a higher pitch. Or a fan rotating very fast but slightly of balance adding a deeper tone to it. I thought at first that it may be a wheel bearing or some sort of drive shaft or something similar. I did however hit a section of the A1 where the surface was nice and smooth and quiet and while on that surface there was no discernable tyre noise the sound at the rear also seemed to have stopped until we were coming off at the York/Harrogate junction at which time the noise returned. I dont know if this was coincidence or a road surface change. I also slipped the car out of gear to see if the noise remained when coasting which it does so hopefully that will help rule out some possible causes.

While we kept to the speed limit as you would expect, it was noticed during one overtaking manouvre that as we accelerated and got near 80 the vibration got pretty severe with Seemingly the whole car shaking quite badly. I will in the first instance get the balance and alignment checked asap but was wondering whether my rather lame description of the issue may point to other issues that I need to have checked so I can inform the Dealer of the possible causes.

Have already emailed him on the journey home in order to notify him as soon as possible that there seems to be a problem, I just need to know what to have checked to get to the bottom of the problem.

I was wondering if anyone else had experienced similar issues, Not having had/driven these cars before and previously having an LS I assumed the extra noise was normal for an SUV and that I was being unreasonable expecting it to come close to the LS for noise levels. Nonetheless I was at a loss to understand why so many people rave on about how quiet they were, when compared to the LS this 350 was definately noisy. However once I hit some half decent roads and the tyre noise reduced I could hear the potential and understood why, on the right roads people would remark on the quietness of the RX.

Could the wheels being unbalanced or alignment being out also be responsible for the noise at the rear or could it be something more sinister causing the noise and vibration. it seems strange that it seemed to disappear on the really quiet stretch of road even though the vibration remained so am hoping it may be just a balance and alignment issue. None of the tyres are new although they recently passed an mot without any advisories so assume they are a way off being illegal. Did notice that they were wearing on the inside edges but I thought that was normal for these types of vehicle.

Any advise on possible causes/things to check will be welcome and I will try to get alignment and balance checked tomorrow and report back. Vehicle has a two year warranty but whether it turns out to be worth the paper its writen on remains to be seen. Other than the vibration/noise issue I am well pleased with the car, even after an LS400 😉

[PCM]

Surely you need to contact the dealer FIRST, to give them an opportunity to fix at their expense?

Assuming you get any work done elsewhere, they might then say it must be the cause and relinquish their responsibility - which you don't really want?

My 2 cents.

Good luck!

[willydoit]

Hi,

Understand what you are saying, have already notified dealer on the way home but as the dealer is over 500 mile round trip it isnt cost efficient to return to let him look at it and also if it did turn out to be something more than balancing I dont want to make matters worse by doing the extra journey.

Dealer was very good so even if there is an issue I dont anticipate any problems with him and am happy to have the car inspected anywhere of his choice which is local to me should he so wish.

I can be paranoid about things so hopefully it will just be a balance/alignment issue. I have seen posts where tyres have been blamed for excessive noise once they start to wear so that also could be a possibility. I would suspect that anything serious would be a constant noise whereas on one stretch of road I did get to experience that "silent interior" reviews of the 350 have mentioned so it may all be down to the tyres and the noise frequency (as in pitch) being different at the back than at the front making it more noticeable.

[ChrisKaye]

What tyres are fitted willy?

Balance & alignment is always worth checking. While they do that, get them to check your wheel bearings.

Other possible/likely cause is a warped disc that has a calliper seized, again, fairly easy to check, worth a clean whilst doing it and fairly cheap to sort!

Fingers crossed!

[ChrisKaye]

Ooo, tyre pressures as well, 34psi for daily trundling does the trick for me!

[willydoit]

What tyres are fitted willy?

Balance & alignment is always worth checking. While they do that, get them to check your wheel bearings.

Other possible/likely cause is a warped disc that has a calliper seized, again, fairly easy to check, worth a clean whilst doing it and fairly cheap to sort!

Fingers crossed!

Hi Chris, they are Dunlop Sp sport all round although the corner that I thought the noise was coming from has the lowest tread depth, still legal but only a millimetre or so above the wear bar on that one. Have got the car booked in at ATS at 1:30 so will hopefully have some news then

Will also get them to check caliper as I believe they slide somehow and can be a problem on these vehicles, not sure if it would present these issues or not.

[stevet]

I would put the blame on the tyres first. They are a very quiet car. Also the wear on the inner edge doesn't sound right. All mine have always worn evenly.

[ColinBarber]

The RX isn't going to be as quite as an LS, the tyres and the shape of the vehicle see to that, however it seems do you have an issue which very much seems like a wheel issue. That may be balancing, alignment or a defective tyre/wheel. Hopefully it is easily resolved once you visit your local tyre fitters.

Uneven wear isn't a normal issue with the RX so you certainly want a full alignment check.

[willydoit]

I would put the blame on the tyres first. They are a very quiet car. Also the wear on the inner edge doesn't sound right. All mine have always worn evenly.

Thanks for that, noise issues are always difficult when coming from driving an LS as you never know just how much is normal for other cars. hopefully wont have to shell out for new tyres at this stage but if that resolves it then I would be happy.

[PCM]

Might be worth checking the tyre ages as well? That 4 digit number.

Love my car but the old tyres were not good. Changed all 4 to Michelin's and the difference was amazing at many levels.

:)

[ChrisKaye]

Dunlops are known to get noisier the lower the tread gets, Michelin latitude tour seems a great tyre from the rave reviews other owners have posted.

Original fit bridgestones are OK but I'm not impressed...!

[ChrisKaye]

If nothing obviousness found, try putting the spare into rotation and swapping a different wheel a week to see if it is a rim/tyre issue as Colin mentions!

[rayaans]

Yeah I had the Dunlop Sp Sport 270 before the Michelin Latitudes. They got noisier as they got older but no inner wear on my 450h.

I doubt its tyres, unless they got a flat spot somewhere?

Id say - get a full alignment check done using the Hunter machine. If you get a vibration and washing machine noise when turning, its a bearing.

[willydoit]

Hi all,

just got back from ATS and they havent done any of the work as they say all the tyres need changing, I am no tyre expert, far from it and while I agree that one wants doing I think they are taking the mickey with the others which has really annoyed me as we have used them for years and I certainly expect better. So will be taking it somewhere else next week for a second opinion.

All that said, they say that the rear nearside tyre is misshapen which would make sense as thats the corner I thought the noise was coming from. No arguement that that wants replacing. they are saying two others want replacing as they have cracks in them but I have looked when I got back here and cannot see any cracks, and the fourth they say wants replacing due to it running the tyre off on the inside although the rest of the tyre has 4-5mm however they wont say any of the tyres are illegal or that they wouldnt pass an MOT which they did 2k miles ago. The best bit, £739 for four Dunlops or £530 for four Michelin so really not impressed given the amount of business we have given them over the years.

So hopefully the issues really are just down to the tyres, so far I have found I can get 4 michelin latitude tour for £115.00 plus vat each and alignment front and rear for £40 + vat so if replacing all £500 should sort it and I am sure the selling dealer will help out with that given that he wasnt aware they were that bad but I think two tyres will do as the other two (if not severely cracked) have 4 and 5 mm on them so should at last till winter.

So thats where we are at, they say there is no play on the bearings so thats good, does the misshaped tyre sound plausible as the cause of the noise? it causing vibration would seem to be a no brainer but your opinions on noise generation from an out of shape tyre would be helpful.

Thanks for all the help so far, will definately go for the Michelins on replacement.

[stevet]

I'd put two new tyres on the back and two of the best from your original five on the front. You will then at least know if its the tyres causing the problems for a small outlay.

[Parrot of Doom]

I would put the blame on the tyres first. They are a very quiet car. Also the wear on the inner edge doesn't sound right. All mine have always worn evenly.

Thanks for that, noise issues are always difficult when coming from driving an LS as you never know just how much is normal for other cars. hopefully wont have to shell out for new tyres at this stage but if that resolves it then I would be happy.

With only 1mm left before the tyre becomes illegal I'd change both on that axle now.

[Boxbrownie]

If your dealer wants to contribute to replacing the worn tyres please let me know where he is, sounds like he is one in a million!

[rayaans]

Hi all,

just got back from ATS and they havent done any of the work as they say all the tyres need changing, I am no tyre expert, far from it and while I agree that one wants doing I think they are taking the mickey with the others which has really annoyed me as we have used them for years and I certainly expect better. So will be taking it somewhere else next week for a second opinion.

All that said, they say that the rear nearside tyre is misshapen which would make sense as thats the corner I thought the noise was coming from. No arguement that that wants replacing. they are saying two others want replacing as they have cracks in them but I have looked when I got back here and cannot see any cracks, and the fourth they say wants replacing due to it running the tyre off on the inside although the rest of the tyre has 4-5mm however they wont say any of the tyres are illegal or that they wouldnt pass an MOT which they did 2k miles ago. The best bit, £739 for four Dunlops or £530 for four Michelin so really not impressed given the amount of business we have given them over the years.

So hopefully the issues really are just down to the tyres, so far I have found I can get 4 michelin latitude tour for £115.00 plus vat each and alignment front and rear for £40 + vat so if replacing all £500 should sort it and I am sure the selling dealer will help out with that given that he wasnt aware they were that bad but I think two tyres will do as the other two (if not severely cracked) have 4 and 5 mm on them so should at last till winter.

So thats where we are at, they say there is no play on the bearings so thats good, does the misshaped tyre sound plausible as the cause of the noise? it causing vibration would seem to be a no brainer but your opinions on noise generation from an out of shape tyre would be helpful.

Thanks for all the help so far, will definately go for the Michelins on replacement.

Im assuming ATS is including VAT? If so doesn't it work out cheaper? As £115 x 4 = 460 x 1.2 = £552?

I'd change all 4 and the only reason is that the Michelins are mud and snow marked. Eagle eyed insurance inspectors will pick up on it if you're in a crash

[chesterman]

Hi Willy,

On my previous Volvo S60 I experienced something similar a couple of years ago. Local garage, whom I have used for years, diagnosed perished rear tyres despite them having several mm of tread remaining. I was sceptical but trusted their judgement, (they did not sell tyres,) and had them replaced. No further issues and a dramatic transformation. It may not be your issue but do not dismiss the possibility.

I also purchased my RX recently and with two tyres close to the limits had to make a decision about which to replace, with what and when. Having read several times that 4 wheel drive vehicles can be very sensitive to different tread patterns and even tread depth, I have elected to replace all 4 rather than just the two. Whilst I had settled on the Michelin Latitude Tour, (thanks to the numerous contributors on this forum,) I could not source them at a reasonable price, many providers being out of stock ! I finally decided on Hankook Dynapro HP2 RA33 via Blackcircles. £110 a corner fitted, highly rated and with some snow/ice capability according to the reviews. To be fitted on the 24th and I will of course report back on their performance in due course.

Just my thoughts for whatever they may be worth.

[willydoit]

Hi Rayaans,

It works out cheaper if the Michelins are Latitude but they didnt specify on their quote so am unsure, but they did say the Dunlops were sports which is about £300 dearer than elsewhere, plus the fact that I cannot see the splits they made mention of on a tyre that otherwise they report 5mm of tread depth on. They also wouldnt commit to saying that any of the tyres were illegal or that they woulnt pass an MOT despite saying that they should be replaced which concerned me. I could be totally wrong and the quote on the Dunlops could be an error as they have always been decent in the past. I am aware that branches can also be put under pressure to increase sales by area management so maybe my timing was unlucky.

What I should have done (or they should have done/suggested) was as a temporary measure to see if it resolved the issues was to swap the out of shape tyre with the tyre from the spare which I might see if I can get done somewhere today if I can find anywhere that opens on a Sunday. Alternative is to just fit the spare but I would rather just replace the tyre to replace one item at a time in case the issue is a misshaped or damaged rim.

[willydoit]

If your dealer wants to contribute to replacing the worn tyres please let me know where he is, sounds like he is one in a million!

Hi, The dealer does seem a genuine chap, we bought the car unseen based upon his description as the car was more than a 500 mile round trip for us to see. We asked questions about the car which included the tyres and the dealer did advise that the tyres were all fine although when looking on the ramp he advised that a couple did seem to be wearing on the inside but otherwise had plenty of tread depth. To be fair, his description was accurate and there were no advisories on the MOT done in April about them. I am happy to believe that he was genuinly unaware of the misshaped tyre as we didnt detect it on the test drive either, it was only once we hit the motorway on the way back that it became evident that something wasnt right.

The dealer specialises in prestige vehicles and our £9k advertised vehicle was the cheapest he had in ( we didnt pay that for it) so yes, having spoken to him about it and advising I will be getting another opinion on whether all the tyres need replacing I do believe at this stage that he will agree a contribution, I may be being too fair but I dont expect him to cover the cost of 4 new tyres especially having reduced the price as much as we did but I do not believe he will refuse a contribution if he has made a genuine mistake re the description of the tyres. In the end, if all it costs me is a couple of tyres to put everyting right I wont be distraught and either way it wont be worth souring the whole deal arguing about it. We did after all get a good deal on the vehicle given the spec and mileage.

[willydoit]

Hi Willy,

On my previous Volvo S60 I experienced something similar a couple of years ago. Local garage, whom I have used for years, diagnosed perished rear tyres despite them having several mm of tread remaining. I was sceptical but trusted their judgement, (they did not sell tyres,) and had them replaced. No further issues and a dramatic transformation. It may not be your issue but do not dismiss the possibility.

I also purchased my RX recently and with two tyres close to the limits had to make a decision about which to replace, with what and when. Having read several times that 4 wheel drive vehicles can be very sensitive to different tread patterns and even tread depth, I have elected to replace all 4 rather than just the two. Whilst I had settled on the Michelin Latitude Tour, (thanks to the numerous contributors on this forum,) I could not source them at a reasonable price, many providers being out of stock ! I finally decided on Hankook Dynapro HP2 RA33 via Blackcircles. £110 a corner fitted, highly rated and with some snow/ice capability according to the reviews. To be fitted on the 24th and I will of course report back on their performance in due course.

Just my thoughts for whatever they may be worth.

Thanks for that, of course we dont know what the previous owners did for the MOT, they may have bought used tyres to fit to the car if they knew they were just going to sell it, best just to concentrate on getting it resolved rather than speculate on what others may have done I suppose. I have rung a couple of places and while the Michelins seem to be special order they do seem to be available so will probably go for them. Having just depleted our savings buying the Rx and an SC430 within the last few weeks I would rather buy just two for now and replace the others (if needed) closer to winter. If there is any question over the condition of the other two from a safety perspective then I will replace all four. I have heard that the Hankook are a decent tyre, will be interested in hearing your thoughts on them in due course, especially froma noise perspective which is my main obsession.

[Valkirk]

Please be careful having different tyre season types front and back (if that is the case) different grip levels between front and back in certain conditions is very dangerous. I would make switching the front two a very high priority before any hint of bad weather.

[PCM]

Please be careful having different tyre season types front and back (if that is the case) different grip levels between front and back in certain conditions is very dangerous. I would make switching the front two a very high priority before any hint of bad weather.

Agree 100%

Despite the extra £, I really would consider replacing all 4. Platitude alert - but they ARE the only thing between you and the road.

The extra two tyres will equate to maybe 3 full tanks of petrol. Longer term it's easier to justify the cost.

When I bought my car I changed all 4 tyres. It transformed it and I KNEW it was safer - especially as it is AWD.

My 2 cents!

:)

[willydoit]

Please be careful having different tyre season types front and back (if that is the case) different grip levels between front and back in certain conditions is very dangerous. I would make switching the front two a very high priority before any hint of bad weather.

Agree 100%

Despite the extra £, I really would consider replacing all 4. Platitude alert - but they ARE the only thing between you and the road.

The extra two tyres will equate to maybe 3 full tanks of petrol. Longer term it's easier to justify the cost.

When I bought my car I changed all 4 tyres. It transformed it and I KNEW it was safer - especially as it is AWD.

My 2 cents!

:)

Hi both, thanks for the advice, I hadnt considered it from a season type perspective, I always prefer to keep matching tyres on my cars but assumed it would be okay to stagger the change if there turns out to be nothing wrong with the other two tyres. I certainly cannot expect dealer to contribute if I end up replacing all for for preference only as opposed to all four being damaged.

I dont know much about tyres so dont know the difference betwen the existing Dunlop sports and the proposed Michelins, have always put Michelins on my other cars where possible as they have always seemed quieter albeit they tend to wear quicker.

Was deciding on the Michelins based on the comment that everyone on the forum rated them. I can do without spending the money but would feel better if all four were replaced, just seems a shame to take off tyres with 5mm of tread if it turns out there isnt anything wrong with them, but thats probably just the Yorkshireman in me....