Confirmed Is To Get Turbo

stevet · June 26, 2015

http://media.toyota.co.uk/2015/06/lexus-is-to-gain-turbo-power/

Successor to old IS300?

Steve44 · June 26, 2015

Very nice, pity the emissions/economy are so high. Seems to be pitched between the BMW 328i (245bhp 145g/co2) and 335i (305bhp 170g/co2).

I'm guessing on the price being £39K+, based on NX200t cost. Wonder if they will do it in a range of trims or just F-Sport?

rayaans · June 26, 2015

Very nice, pity the emissions/economy are so high. Seems to be pitched between the BMW 328i (245bhp 145g/co2) and 335i (305bhp 170g/co2).

I'm guessing on the price being £39K+, based on NX200t cost. Wonder if they will do it in a range of trims or just F-Sport?

Im guessing its replacing the IS250 so I'd expect the price increase to be marginal - perhaps around £1k on all trim levels.

Should be a great vehicle - that torque and horsepower figure is great and the lighter engine should help handling compared to the IS250. Itll reduce understeer to an extent.

I dont find 167g/km of CO2 bad at all for an F-Sport? Its not a hybrid at the end of the day and 0-60 in 7s seems a bit conservative, especially since the NX weighs more with a slower transmission. Id expect it to do around 6.5s in reality.

I mean the 328I makes pretty much exactly the same sort of power, yet its 1.1s faster than a 200t due to a 150kg weight difference? I doubt it lol.

ColinBarber · June 26, 2015

Strange that Lexus made a big point about the NX200t only having a 6 speed transmission because it was especially designed to match the engine characteristics and that the 8 speed wasn't as good and then they announce the IS with an 8 speed

stevet · June 26, 2015

Some USA websites declaring it will be the same price as the outgoing 250. Makes sense as I can't see it costing more to make than a 2.5 V6.

If its anything like the GS250 was there will be some huge discounts coming on the IS250

rayaans · June 26, 2015

Some USA websites declaring it will be the same price as the outgoing 250. Makes sense as I can't see it costing more to make than a 2.5 V6.

If its anything like the GS250 was there will be some huge discounts coming on the IS250

GS will be getting the 200t soon too

ganzoom · June 27, 2015

241bhp from a turbo 4 cylinder is pretty conservative these days. The chassis deserves more power, why haven't Lexus brought over the IS350?? In the U.S. reviews its beating the 335i, which is some achievement.

Drove our 300H again last week, lovely car at lower speeds, but the throttle just isn't responsive enough to really exploit the chassis.

Such a shame it hasn't got an full electric drivetrain, I'll happily drop £50-60k on a 300bhp Lexus EV with a 200 mile range Battery :(

F.A. · June 27, 2015

241bhp from a turbo 4 cylinder is pretty conservative these days. The chassis deserves more power, why haven't Lexus brought over the IS350?? In the U.S. reviews its beating the 335i, which is some achievement.

The emissions are too high on the 3.5 V6 without any hybrid tech

rayaans · June 27, 2015

241bhp from a turbo 4 cylinder is pretty conservative these days. The chassis deserves more power, why haven't Lexus brought over the IS350?? In the U.S. reviews its beating the 335i, which is some achievement.

Drove our 300H again last week, lovely car at lower speeds, but the throttle just isn't responsive enough to really exploit the chassis.

Such a shame it hasn't got an full electric drivetrain, I'll happily drop £50-60k on a 300bhp Lexus EV with a 200 mile range battery :(

The Lexus drivetrains are designed to outlast the likes of BMW, Mercedes etc. Hell, Mercedes just got 181hp out of a 2.0l in the C200 lol.

We all know 340hp from a 2.0 turbo is possible but itll start having problems near 100k guaranteed. My Merc C220 is already having things going wrong, its only 150hp and 74k miles.

stevet · June 27, 2015

241bhp from a turbo 4 cylinder is pretty conservative these days. The chassis deserves more power, why haven't Lexus brought over the IS350?? In the U.S. reviews its beating the 335i, which is some achievement.

Drove our 300H again last week, lovely car at lower speeds, but the throttle just isn't responsive enough to really exploit the chassis.

Such a shame it hasn't got an full electric drivetrain, I'll happily drop £50-60k on a 300bhp Lexus EV with a 200 mile range battery :(

The Lexus drivetrains are designed to outlast the likes of BMW, Mercedes etc. Hell, Mercedes just got 181hp out of a 2.0l in the C200 lol.

We all know 340hp from a 2.0 turbo is possible but itll start having problems near 100k guaranteed. My Merc C220 is already having things going wrong, its only 150hp and 74k miles.

I applaud Lexus for doing that but unfortunately 99% of new car buyers will never see 100k miles and just buy on performance spec. Only USA where high miles are the norm Lexus outsell BMW.

Martin F · June 27, 2015

We all know 340hp from a 2.0 turbo is possible but itll start having problems near 100k guaranteed.

Why's that then?

rayaans · June 27, 2015

241bhp from a turbo 4 cylinder is pretty conservative these days. The chassis deserves more power, why haven't Lexus brought over the IS350?? In the U.S. reviews its beating the 335i, which is some achievement.

Drove our 300H again last week, lovely car at lower speeds, but the throttle just isn't responsive enough to really exploit the chassis.

Such a shame it hasn't got an full electric drivetrain, I'll happily drop £50-60k on a 300bhp Lexus EV with a 200 mile range battery :(

The Lexus drivetrains are designed to outlast the likes of BMW, Mercedes etc. Hell, Mercedes just got 181hp out of a 2.0l in the C200 lol.

We all know 340hp from a 2.0 turbo is possible but itll start having problems near 100k guaranteed. My Merc C220 is already having things going wrong, its only 150hp and 74k miles.

I applaud Lexus for doing that but unfortunately 99% of new car buyers will never see 100k miles and just buy on performance spec. Only USA where high miles are the norm Lexus outsell BMW.

They'll realise when it goes POP lol. Lexus main market is USA anyway and hence they need a car which works well over there more so than it does here

We all know 340hp from a 2.0 turbo is possible but itll start having problems near 100k guaranteed.

Why's that then?

It causes extra stress on the engine components. There used to be cooling issues back in the 80's and you had to cool the car down for 2 minutes before turning it off. I think this is states in the NX200t owners manual too, but dont know how relevant this actually is in modern engines.

There was a lawsuit against BMW for the N54 engine back in the states. They had to put the car under warranty for 10 years/120k miles as it had pump issues.

ganzoom · June 27, 2015

It causes extra stress on the engine components. There used to be cooling issues back in the 80's and you had to cool the car down for 2 minutes before turning it off. I think this is states in the NX200t owners manual too, but dont know how relevant this actually is in modern engines.

There was a lawsuit against BMW for the N54 engine back in the states. They had to put the car under warranty for 10 years/120k miles as it had pump issues.

The N54 engine and turbo itself is actually very reliable. The law suit was against the high-pressure fuel pump (which BMW re-designed 3 times), and the turbo wastegates (which had a manufacture flaw). The N54 lump is are actually good enough for 500bhp+ without needing rebuilds - providing you fit big enough turbo. If I hadn't sold my N54 335i, I would have aimed to push it to 420bhp on normal regular unleaded :)

You don't need to cool down modern day turbos more, certainly on BMWs the turbos are water-cooled, and the water pump will run even with the ignition off if the engine management systems deems it needed.

Having a high out-put engine in itself isn't a problem, the problem with German cars (well my old BMW anyways), was poor component design and poor manufacturing tolerances...

Honda, Renault, Ford, all have 4 cylinder turbo units running at 300bhp+. But I suspect hardly anyone will buy a IS turbo regardless of power, the mass market is obsessed with mpg and emissions. BMW sells a tiny number of 335i's compared to the 320d.

rayaans · June 27, 2015

Honda you can truant, Renault and Ford not so much.

I can see IS200T selling very well in America as it has a good balance of power and cost. With enough torque as the IS350, it'll feel pretty spritely

rayaans · June 27, 2015

Honda you can truant, Renault and Ford not so much.

I can see IS200T selling very well in America as it has a good balance of power and cost. With enough torque as the IS350, it'll feel pretty spritely

Martin F · June 27, 2015

It causes extra stress on the engine components. There used to be cooling issues back in the 80's and you had to cool the car down for 2 minutes before turning it off. I think this is states in the NX200t owners manual too, but dont know how relevant this actually is in modern engines.

There was a lawsuit against BMW for the N54 engine back in the states. They had to put the car under warranty for 10 years/120k miles as it had pump issues.

No manufacturer worth their salt would produce an engine that over stressed components nowadays. Things have moved on considerably since the 80's, particularly on the design and manufacturing tolerances side. Look at all the Mitsubishi Evo's (FQ300's and FQ400's as an example) and Subaru WRX's out there that have done many thousands of miles with no hitches.

This engine looks quite interesting to me, and i'm curious why they have gone for an air to water intercooler as that introduces quite a lot of weight, but maybe in a less sporty car like the IS weight is not the biggest consideration. I'll be interested to test drive it when it is launched.

rayaans · June 27, 2015

It causes extra stress on the engine components. There used to be cooling issues back in the 80's and you had to cool the car down for 2 minutes before turning it off. I think this is states in the NX200t owners manual too, but dont know how relevant this actually is in modern engines.

There was a lawsuit against BMW for the N54 engine back in the states. They had to put the car under warranty for 10 years/120k miles as it had pump issues.

No manufacturer worth their salt would produce an engine that over stressed components nowadays. Things have moved on considerably since the 80's, particularly on the design and manufacturing tolerances side. Look at all the Mitsubishi Evo's (FQ300's and FQ400's as an example) and Subaru WRX's out there that have done many thousands of miles with no hitches.

This engine looks quite interesting to me, and i'm curious why they have gone for an air to water intercooler as that introduces quite a lot of weight, but maybe in a less sporty car like the IS weight is not the biggest consideration. I'll be interested to test drive it when it is launched.

No matter what the manufacturers say, it always causes more stress on the components than an NA engine.

Apparently the weight of the engine is only 167kg. No idea if that's good or not lol but it's lower than the 250

Martin F · June 28, 2015

No matter what the manufacturers say, it always causes more stress on the components than an NA engine.
Apparently the weight of the engine is only 167kg. No idea if that's good or not lol but it's lower than the 250

And all the bolts will fall out and the wheels will drop off at exactly 100k

Steve44 · June 28, 2015

No matter what the manufacturers say, it always causes more stress on the components than an NA engine.

Apparently the weight of the engine is only 167kg. No idea if that's good or not lol but it's lower than the 250

it's not particularly good - BMW N20 in current 328 is approx 140kg.

I'm pretty sure Lexus could have pushed the output further if they wanted to, but given the more relaxed/refined nature of the brand, I'm sure it fits those values well. However, for a company that seems to want to push the envelope with tech and engineering expertise, it doesn't really hit it for me. Yes it combines turbo charging with variable Atkinson cycle etc, but if it was really ground breaking, then emissions would be below 140g/km or MPG would be 50 for the same power output. It's all very middling.

ganzoom · June 28, 2015

So had another drive out in IS today. Tried it in 'sport' mode, once 'in-gear' the power is decent and picks up speed well, but the lag between putting your foot down and the power-train hocking up and delivering the power is awful, on a wet greasy round-about I simply was too scared to try and use the power because I just couldn't predict when the power was going to appear after I pressed the accelerator, and I haven't got quick enough reactions to correct for un-expected over-steer.

The power delivery of the IS300H in sports mode reminds me of the early Honda S2000's, where the VTEC kicked in at 6Krpm, so just as your mid corner the power goes from 140bhp -> 240bhp which makes for some 'interesting' experiences if you only have limited driving skills (like my self) and no TC (like early S2000's)....Facing the wrong way in traffic is something thankfully I've only experienced once on a public road:)

The turbo car will get around that problem I suspect, the chassis of the IS is really really good, even at quick speeds it soaks up bumps/changes in camber much better than my old E90 BMW, it's actually almost as good as the BMW even with £3K worth of Bilstein + Ebiach suspension bits thrown on....If I was still interested in performance petrol cars I would definitely be interested in the next IS-F. I wonder if Lexus will go down the NA route of the RC-F or develop the turbo unit more?

stevet · June 28, 2015

So had another drive out in IS today. Tried it in 'sport' mode, once 'in-gear' the power is decent and picks up speed well, but the lag between putting your foot down and the power-train hocking up and delivering the power is awful, on a wet greasy round-about I simply was too scared to try and use the power because I just couldn't predict when the power was going to appear after I pressed the accelerator, and I haven't got quick enough reactions to correct for un-expected over-steer.

The power delivery of the IS300H in sports mode reminds me of the early Honda S2000's, where the VTEC kicked in at 6Krpm, so just as your mid corner the power goes from 140bhp -> 240bhp which makes for some 'interesting' experiences if you only have limited driving skills (like my self) and no TC (like early S2000's)....Facing the wrong way in traffic is something thankfully I've only experienced once on a public road:)

The turbo car will get around that problem I suspect, the chassis of the IS is really really good, even at quick speeds it soaks up bumps/changes in camber much better than my old E90 BMW, it's actually almost as good as the BMW even with £3K worth of Bilstein + Ebiach suspension bits thrown on....If I was still interested in performance petrol cars I would definitely be interested in the next IS-F. I wonder if Lexus will go down the NA route of the RC-F or develop the turbo unit more?

It was the same when F1 went KERS, the sudden torque from the electric motors caused them to spin.

Might be a long wait for the next ISF, none in the pipeline to be developed.

ganzoom · June 28, 2015

It was the same when F1 went KERS, the sudden torque from the electric motors caused them to spin.

So my driving skills were on par of that with a F1 driver...I like what your saying :)

Looking at the dyno charts of the S2000, you can see why these things stupid high insurance rates....Interestingly I cannot see any dyno plot for the IS300H...I might take mine to the local RR to see what the power delivery is actually like, BUT I think getting any kind of useful tracing will be hard given the lack of any 'rev' range.

So sad to hear no new IS-F planned :(

F.A. · June 28, 2015

So had another drive out in IS today. Tried it in 'sport' mode, once 'in-gear' the power is decent and picks up speed well, but the lag between putting your foot down and the power-train hocking up and delivering the power is awful, on a wet greasy round-about I simply was too scared to try and use the power because I just couldn't predict when the power was going to appear after I pressed the accelerator, and I haven't got quick enough reactions to correct for un-expected over-steer.

The power delivery of the IS300H in sports mode reminds me of the early Honda S2000's, where the VTEC kicked in at 6Krpm, so just as your mid corner the power goes from 140bhp -> 240bhp which makes for some 'interesting' experiences if you only have limited driving skills (like my self) and no TC (like early S2000's)....Facing the wrong way in traffic is something thankfully I've only experienced once on a public road:)

The turbo car will get around that problem I suspect, the chassis of the IS is really really good, even at quick speeds it soaks up bumps/changes in camber much better than my old E90 BMW, it's actually almost as good as the BMW even with £3K worth of Bilstein + Ebiach suspension bits thrown on....If I was still interested in performance petrol cars I would definitely be interested in the next IS-F. I wonder if Lexus will go down the NA route of the RC-F or develop the turbo unit more?

Unfortunately It does not sound like there will be a new IS-F. The RC-F has apparently been produced to fill that space and the four door alternative will be the GS-F